Why do cartoons get away with such incredibly bad writing all the time?

No, it's the viewers enjoyment, a facade.
You don't go to jail for bad writing, your project simply becomes poorly written.

Typically when things are poorly written/done, consumers will react negatively (star wars for example).
The punishment for bad writing is having readers call your work badly written, but with cartoons, readers just seem to give a pass to bad writing, all the time, and this show is just full of it, yet my friend was foaming at the mouth claiming it's the greatest cartoon ever made

There's nothing elaborate about it, fag.

>people call out anime for bad writing
no one called out Goblin Slayer for being generic schlock with bad writing

this is the correct answer

Yes they did. They do it all the time.

I thought she hit iroh with fire during this

Yet I see it praised all over

>The punishment for bad writing is having readers call your work badly written, but with cartoons, readers just seem to give a pass to bad writing
You must be new here. Probably lurk for a bit to get a sense of the culture on a board, before watching one cartoon and then jumping over from Yea Forums to yell about bad writing. Several people here have already agreed that that particular scene was an asspull, though you're pretty off-base saying AtLA is a 5/10

Where?

I agree with this idea, but then i don't understand the "it's for kids & adults", or the idea that kids are too stupid for consistent and good writing.
Like you can have a kids show, and not asspull yourself out of every corner you write yourself into.

The scene i posted was egregious, but just about in nearly every fight, the characters are completely inconsistent with their powers and what they can and can't do depending on if the plot demands it.
Like 90% of the time i'm thinking "why don't you just do that thing you do a few episode ago?"
Like running at the speed of wind, shifting the floor under someones feet.

Or people just suddenly loose all their brain cells.
in pic related, the heroes are cornered , surrounded, outmatched, and katara can suddenly just make a massive wave, wipe out every single super secrete military police guy, who just stands there to get blown away, like they want to be hit, like they suddenly can't earth bend, and then they are a complete non factor afterwards.

Like the writers wanted to create a tense scene in which the heroes are cornered, and we've seen them do all they can do, and then they immediately just resolve the conflict with incredible lazy writing, in which the opposition must be stupefied so the heroes can win. What's the point of even pretending like anyone was in danger.

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There was near constant criticism on Yea Forums when the first episode of GS aired
Frodoposting was fucking everywhere

Because it isn't about the writing, its about the pictures, man.

I've complained about that specific scene a few times here, but that said it's very minor and doesn't mean ATLA is "poorly written" it certainly is not. the show even poked fun at itself for that moment.

8 or 9/10.

Attached: e0c526bf6b2df42891fa8434df94696b.gif (500x213, 1.31M)

youtube.com/watch?v=xObpicXEn-Q

It's not just this i'd say nearly ever episode there's some kind of lazily written plot contrivance, that get masked in comedy, or people just pretend never happend. it's weird.
The conflict resolutions, are often just laughable badly written.

>I've trained decades to master this technique
>Mary suetara instantly perfects it
Like damn, at least pretend like you guys care about the shit you're making.

I wasn't writing down ever instance of this bad writing as it went along, i'm not that type of faggot, i'm honestly surprised this show has been out for so long yet one of those meme hate youtubers didn't make one yet.

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That said, it isn't minor at all what so ever. If she had been defeated there, half of the show doesn't happen.
She's a major character in the narrative and so they need to ass pull her until it's time for her to lose, it's a massive blight on everything that comes afterwards.

This thread is embarrassing. Now we know what happens when a generation of kids grows up digesting fiction like retarded YouTubers.

Many are written by storyboarders/animators with no writing experience or writers who believe that cartoons don't have to make sense

>digesting fiction like retarded YouTubers.
IT LOOKS LIKE VEGAS
WHY DOES IT LOOK LIKE VEGAS?

that's stupid logic it WAS a very minor moment. regardless the Avatar crew was as exhausted as possible, and Iroh just got burned so everyone was a bit distracted. if this is the kind of shit that bugs you so much than the average show you watch must be 2/10.

Like Craig in the Creek?

if you're going to complain about anything in that fight then complain about Zuko's giant flame tentacles. Katara was only riding on a giant water bubble Toph was doing something similar but 50x cooler earlier in the same episode, and it's reasonable to say the Dai Li were distracted by their universes god being zapped. they could have shown them putting more of a resistance at their escape but Iroh was still covering them and Katara got out of their very fast. the bad guys thought they already won at that point because they have absolutely no clue about the magic water bullshit.

An honest answers, i get that.

Why i don't get is way people, primarily adults who spend time discussing cartoons on the internet, don't seem to care.

Indeed

Look at the shining pinnacle of capeshit animation BTAS. If you watch every episode you'll see there were three to four really good episodes, but most were terrible from a writing stand point.

All it takes is one or two really good episodes for people to think the entire show was the best ever. The MCU is the movie version of this.

>that's stupid logic it WAS a very minor moment
No it's not, it's just actual logic.

Up until this point she is by far the most important and menacing villain the heroes have crossed paths with, she's the big bad of the story here.
Having that character being absolutely cornered, is not a minor moment in any sense of the word. I notice you don't even attempt to justify it, you just claim the logic is wrong, when it isn't.

>The heroes where tired
That doesn't explain how she can disappear out of thin air
The heroes being tired could have been written as justification for her, beating them all and escaping, except that makes no sense either since she would just capture them.
So they are forced to writer the heroes as physically capable in this fight, since they aren't allowed to lose, completely contradicting that they are supposed to be incredibly tired write now.

Which is just more bad writing, in addition, to everyone somehow making it to that ghost town, when it took aang, hours of flying, and azula and zuko a lizard ride.

>Iroh was hurt so they where all distracted
It only takes one person to change a light bulb, it's just bad writing to suddenly stupify your characters and have them act as if they all have healing powers, and surrounding iroh is the best corse of action.

Bad writing would bother anyone with a functioning brain and no bias.
The average show to me is a 5/10 like this one, and the average show is filled with lazy writing like this one, i'm just surprised, this one gets a pass from cartoon watchers.

>Having that character being absolutely cornered, is not a minor moment in any sense of the word
that doesn't make it a big moment, it literally wasn't. you can wish it was a big moment but it was not.

>That doesn't explain how she can disappear out of thin air
she uh ran away in the smoke, obviously.

>suddenly stupify your characters
they're all exhausted, as said. that was kind of the point of the episode.

As I was saying the shows is filled with this completely inconsistent power usage type shit from everyone, it's too much to mention each instance like you're doing.

The difference is, having zuko do shit like that and never doing it again, and never implying he could do it before is that it's mostly just a vapid light show, it's filler action which is more conscern with looking cool, then making sense, and has next to no actual consequence.

With kataras wave, the the Dai li becoming retarded it has major plot implications.
The writers wanted to make a scenario in which aang loses, but they some how escape to set up for the future.

To do this they needed to get aang and katara out of that scene, the only way that's possible is if the 50 fucking secrete police agents suddenly becoming deaf and blind, and katara can suddenly create a wave big enough to wipe them all out (sure would've been useful in that fight that literally just happened)

It's just flat out bad writing, lazy conflict resolution. It's not that i have an issue with the heroes always winning, good, they should, that's great, just have it make sense, to bend the show everytime you write yourself into a corner, it kills any sense of impact after the fact, for anyone who dares to think as the watch it.

As it is, avatar is just 5/10 mindless entertainment, with a good wholesome message and fun characters.

You're write, cartoons are often badly written for the bulk of the run, I just don't get why it gets a pass from adults who discuss them.
When you see anime discussion, every little detail gets criticized, when you look at star wars, every little thing gets torn to bits in critic and analysis.

And both mediums, at least attempt to explain their ass pulls, or have some kind of justification for the lazier moments.

With cartoons it's like this weird wink and nod, in which they don't even try to explain themselves because they don't have to, they are held to a lower standard by consumers.

>That doesn't explain how she can disappear out of thin air
I thought you were complaining about how she was powerful enough to make the big plume of flame she used to escape, but it turns out you were just mis-remembering the scene the whole time. Azula didn't disappear into thin air, the Gaang lost sight of her after the explosion, and when the smoke cleared, she had escaped, and they had to try to tend to Iroh.

Yes it does? You're just saying it's not a big moment, but it is in every narrative sense.

If she's defeated here, half the story simply does not happen. A minor moment is something that can be changed and the overall story and plot is unchanged.
A big moment is something that can't be changed without changing the entire story.
You're just wrong, and not making any valid justifications whats so ever.

>she ran away in the smoke
Is she sonic? what? she's completely out of the entire area by the time the smoke lifts, she's defying any sense of reality.
She just disappears with zero explanation, because they can't beat her yet, because plot, and the writers being incredibly lazy couldn't come up with valid justification for her escape.

>They're all exhausted
No according to this scene, they are completely competent and fight as they always have. There's a blatantly disconnected with the theme of the episode and the script, which is bad writing in it of itself.

Not I just saw it, you're misremembering.
They didn't loose site of here, she just disappears from the scene, because plot with zero explanation.

>They didn't loose site of here, she just disappears from the scene, because plot with zero explanation.
dailymotion.com/video/x6h1suu
The whole thing goes down starting at 23:22
It'll take about a minute for you to see why you're wrong.

>Sokka's boomerang
kek

You're not actually making any valid arguments, i've already seen it, she's there, then she blocks the attack and some how disappears before the smoke lifts.
It's never explained or justify and serves as a poorly written cope out among many.

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>A minor moment is something that can be changed and the overall story and plot is unchanged.
you literally just described that moment

>she's completely out of the entire area by the time the smoke lifts, she's defying any sense of reality.
the point of the smoke was to validate her escape, it lasted as long as it needed to for her to get out of there. we see her agility showcased better in later episodes.

they could've wrote the scene better, they specifically make fun of the moment later, but no one except you cares Jeremy. I agree Yea Forums is extremely biased, something like this would be autistically picked apart if it was in SU but there's a reason why ATLA is so beloved: it's actually fucking good. good characters, good story, good setting, good animation, good soundtrack. just a good show. I can nitpick literally any piece of fiction ANY but that doesn't mean much.

yes animefags do the same thing they hold something like Death Note as this bastion of absolute perfection regardless of any nitpicks/bitching someone can have while watching it, because they genuinely think it's great regardless.

I'm going to resist the urge to be snarky and give you an honest response. You are getting way too hung up on things being presented to you literally. It is not bad writing for something unexpected to happen, nor is it necessarily bad if something goes unexplained for the sake of narrative flow. I'd suggest broadening your horizons and going outside of your comfort zone with fiction, perhaps reading some classic literature, to better understand how a story doesn't always need to be 100% logical to be good.

>it's a solid 5/10
and not one brain dead nigger in this thread even tought about asking OP what he concidered a solid 9/10 to help everyone realise they're dealing with someone who enjoy shit.

Fucking gay ass board of a gay as chan.

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>in which they don't even try to explain themselves because they don't have to, they are held to a lower standard by consumers.
You keep answering your question. It's not just an uphill battle but more a sisyphean task. No cares so people just accept it. You might as well explain plot holes in porn for all it's worth. Most fans know these writers will phone it in and they just look for the nuggets of gold. Cartoons are a business and writers cost money. Why not just have an inter shit out some plot while the artists do their magic or just have the artists make the story. If that's a problem then you're gonna hate Yea Forums and any cartoon discussion in general.

>then she blocks the attack and some how disappears before the smoke lifts.
No, you said "They didn't loose site of here". They clearly lost sight of her, and now you're backtracking.

Alright Yea Forums you got me curious, what do you think are some shows with good writing?

Avatar: The Last Airbender

>you literally just described that moment
No, i described this moment as major and explained why. And you continue to make no counter arguments.

>The point of the smoke is to validate her escape
It doesn't in anyway validate her escape, it last all of two seconds and she's nowhere to be found.
It's just lazy writing.

>They make fun of their own bad writing, but only those of you with functioning brains seem to care jermey!
Clearly, and i don't understand it.

It's not by any means a nitpick, it's just a terribly written conflict resolution, and conflict which would've had major implications on the entire show, and don't get me wrong, it's not like the show became unwatchable afterwarss, this was just more bad writing, which the show has tons of.

As I said, these cartoons are filled with them, i except the wink and nod of "we're allowed to get away with bad writing because this is a cute cartoon for kids!"
"well it's just a kids show", was my intial reaction to this scene, and all the bad writing just like it that litters this show, that just makes it a 5/10, like a lot of shows.

I'm more curious as to why it gets a pass, from adults who have nothing better to do but discuss cartoons, while adults who do the same shit in other mediums are far more critical/ seem to actually care about the writing.

I probably should have seen that one coming. What else you got user, I already saw that one.

Venture Bros.

Duckman

Moral Orel.

The critic

Comedy or action, or both? I'll give you both, my opinion, of course:
>Avatar: TLA
>EEnE
>Dexter's Lab
>Certain episodes of PPG
>Early Spongebob

You're harking on that one scene quite a lot. What others pissed you off?

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>It is not bad writing for something unexpected to happen, nor is it necessarily bad if something goes unexplained for the sake of narrative flow.
This is true.
But poorly written twist/surprises are still poorly written.

Not simply for being unexpected, some of my favorite shows and movies are filled with twist, the difference is they aren't born out of lazy writing, the meticulous detail and effort that goes into setting up twist or unexpected moments in what makes them good. This scene, and many of them like it have none of that.

Stories don't have to be logical in the scene of reality, they just need to be consistent with themselves, make sense within their own context.

Anything that's good user, but if I had to be specific how about something with a bit more continuity? Avatar is there and I liked the adventure aspect of it.

I don't hate Yea Forums at all, it's just weird to me because these are the same people who will tear Star Wars apart or steven universe(which ihaven't seen at all and have no interest in).

Like clearly they are grading some cartoons to much lower standard then they do other media, it just baffles me that these people can then claim their cartoon which the handicape is better then other media, when they don't even have the same standards. It's just weird.

Ok, motherfucking retarded, you used the "muh poor writing" as a excuse to make a ATLA thread.
And that's good

I'm not backtracking, you're trying to turn this into a vapid argument about semantics.
The scene makes no sense, it's a cope out plot resolution and it was poorly written and executed, like most of the show is.

...

Notice how those are loved by so many and everyone talks about them. If you shove shit in people's faces they'll finds ways to show you why it's shit. How many "hidden gems" you think are out there that no one talks about?

Steven Universe

The thread is actually about cartoonfags and their biased low standards, compared to people who consume and discuss anime and movies.

Avatar being badly written is a fact of the universe, and an example of a biased cartoon fandom that i don't really understand.

>No, i described this moment as major and explained why
>A minor moment is something that can be changed and the overall story and plot is unchanged.
how does that not describe
>OP pic
the moment could not have happened at all and the story is the exact same, they could've changed the scene to make more sense for Sinfags by showing the smoke lasting 10 seconds longer or whatever and the story is the exact same. minor moment in an all together minor episode.

Yea Forums has bitched about ATLA a lot too, especially lately
I myself made fun of this scene in a similar bitching thread a few days ago
>though then again she was able to despawn away from Team Aang's group earlier in B2 through pure plot convenience during The Chase so maybe she could get away despite how ridiculous that seems.
inspiration for this thread..?
regardless of any bitching lots of people here (rightfully) love it for many reasons

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>CSI & Law & Order
>good writing

But more to the point, why encourage a medium to be garbage when it could be so much more?

Look, I'm a Yea Forums oldfag and I know that nothing is perfect, but you can not just throw yourself against a schizophrenic fandom.
You are lucky that in Yea Forums you have answered your question honestly and with arguments.
I don't attack and defend; I just watch, I conclude my ideas and I continue to live.

I would say the early to mid Ben 10, Kim Possible. I really can't think of many Yea Forums shows that stuck with me like ATLA

Honestly, if OP is being this anal, I'm surprised they haven't criticized that fire, water, air, and earth = big explosion when it really should be, what? Mud? It sounds like a refusal to suspend disbelief

It's not really. Your argument about why she couldn't have gotten away makes no sense when earlier in the scene, she's shown to be a skilled acrobat who can get up to the tops of the buildings in the ruins. For some reason, you tried to argue out of the idea that they lost sight of her, I guess because it ruins your argument, that and the fact that the smoke cloud was large enough to cover several retreat options. This honestly feels like a case of "Babies have no concept of object permanence" Just because something is out of view doesn't mean it no longer exists, user.

The issue here is defining what 'poorly written' means.

The criticisms I see above seem to focus on interpreting the situation of a specific scene as if each character must perfectly adhere to everything that has been established of them thus far, which is absurd. Are we not allowed to assume that Azula, a powerful bender and athletic fighter who has demonstrated abilities above and beyond the norm, is incapable of quickly escaping within a smokescreen simply because we have not seen exactly how she does it? The specifics of such an event are inconsequential to the story, the critical element (she is unexpectedly cornered but barely manages to escape) is perfectly believable at this point in the show. As you yourself said, it makes sense in context.

>and an example of a biased cartoon fandom that i don't really understand.
EVERY fandom is biased
I could rip apart HxH but huge chunk of Yea Forumsfags will still call it 9/10 and defend every little thing about it, which is fine they like it for a reason

should be blatantly obvious by now that op is autistic

you're not gonna convince him of shit

Kids notice, they just have no standards so they shrug and accept it

>how does that not describe
Because getting rid of azula here, takes away from a bulk of all the episode afterwards in which she plays a major role?

You didn't inspire me to make this thread, i don't even on post on Yea Forums.
My Friend told me this show was great, my mistake thinking he meant great in terms of a good show, he meant great in terms of a cartoon, which is a medium that gets special treatment from people and graded on a lower bar, i always sort of had that sentiment in the back of my head, just watching this show finally confirmed it for me.

Cartoons in general get away with a lot of bad writing, that other mediums simply do not and i was curious as to why.
Now that i think about it some anime is like that too, if they have a really cute art style, and then they do something edgy or serious people immediately seem to praise it.
Shit like madoka, made in abyss, my hero are all pretty bad to serviceable. I think it's something about the art that catches people off guard, like people don't expect much, so when the show does something that's just standard/competent it's a big deal.

Hollyweird has never been known for good writing.

Ya but unlike a wall he'll respond back. Sometimes it's helpful to argue with the mentally ill.

And that's why Yea Forums is the king.

At least you now see it happens to other things beside cartoons. That's just life. Somethings are given a pass for no reason.

No my argument is unchanged, she can be an acrobat, she'd need to be sonic to block their attack and disappear in the literal 2 seconds between the scenes.
It makes no logical sense and defies the laws of physique and it completely inconsistent with everything she's done prior and after.

>Now that i think about it some anime is like that too
>some
you mean every "good" anime ever made

Cartoons have logistical issues that make implementing a good idea more difficult than other art forms. It's always been collaborative and commercial by nature, so individual passions and whims cant be expressed like they can in other art froms. If you want good writing you have to read literature.

Did you need to see her run through the ruined doorway and behind the building so she could find an escape path to believe it's possible? WTF is this. Nothing you're saying makes sense.

The worst part is that Aang basically willing to kill her in that scene.

>Shit like madoka, made in abyss, my hero are all pretty bad to serviceable. I think it's something about the art that catches people off guard, like people don't expect much, so when the show does something that's just standard/competent it's a big deal.

I'm gonna hop on Madoka for a minute. Yeah. People were taken aback and caught off guard when Mami loses her head because the show started off innocently enough. It had nothing to do with the show being "competent" or "standard." The show subverted expectations. That's what drew people in and made people stayed. There aren't that many MG shows that get that treatment. Off the top of my head the only that comes close (and really surpasses) to Madoka's shit was Narutaru.

poorly written in this case, as in they are more concerned with the outcome of the scene, opposed to how they get their actually making sense.

Characters don't need to 'perfectly' adhere to things established about them thus far, theirs inherent wiggle room in which we assume we haven't seen all a character can do.

That's fine, simply show us what azula does to escape, explain how it happens. Make sure whatever she does isn't something that she should've just done in all the previous encounters, otherwise it's just bad writing for her to never have done it before.

The actually smart thing to do, is to not write yourself into corners like this in the first place, if the writers were at all competent then this wouldn't happen.

How do you know the smokescreen was on screen for the full amount of time it existed in the reality of the show? Like a movie, they showed the smokescreen then cut to it disappearing, it is an illusion that you perceive the two events as occuring within the same amount of time as it was shown on screen. Do you understand how you are letting your own misperceptions affect your interpretation of events?

People on Yea Forums tear HxH apart on the daily, i don't even watch the show but i'm aware of all the critic talking points.
>o my rubber ass pull
>info dumping like none other
>incredibly vapid dialogue taking up entire pages
>1 note boring protagonist
blah blah blah, all they do is pick shit apart.

Cartoon fans in particular just let so much shit slide

I needed to see how she can deflect all their attacks, disappear with the smoke in 2 seconds.
It just doesn't make any sense, the actual answer is just because she's not allowed to be beat yet, it's just lazily written.

Riding off on the lizard would've been nice or something.

embarrassing post

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I think "subvert expectations", is sort of an inherent quality in most cartoons that get praised to no end.
Like if SU makes a reference to suicide or a "serious issue", even if it's hamfisted and done poorly, it's a big deal just because it's a cartoon.
That's how a feel about madoka in a sense.

I'm just gonna stick with it ultimately being lower standards off first impressions.

This thread is nothing but embarrassing posts, I'm trying to be civil and help the poor guy realize his mistake.

...Batman TAS.

The first 10 seasons or so of The Simpsons.

>How do you know the smokescreen was on screen for the full amount of time it existed in the reality of the show?
AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

ok i'm out, like do you not feel stupid actually writing this?

Incidentally, SU's poor handling on serious topics has not gone unchecked by the fans

There's nothing funny about it. Do you really not understand the intent?

Dude, look how low the wall is behind the ruined house. She could have easily used her skills we already saw to get over it, and literally be 2 yards beyond it, booking it to get away by the time the smoke clears, and it would still have the same effect, because once she was out of sight, they went to help Iroh.

I didn't plan to argue for this long, but you just keep saying the stupidest shit.

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>How do you know the smokescreen was on screen for the full amount of time it existed in the reality of the show?

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I understand the intent, it's just lazily written and never explained.
How did she block their attack, and get over the wall and disappear at the same time. Smoke goes up in the air and she just disappears, it's just dumb.

if only there was some kind of escape route like a door right next to where she vanished that led directly to cover and if only there were several examples of the show establishing her near superhuman agility but too bad none of those things exist too bad

>Cartoon fans in particular just let so much shit slide
bahahahhahahahahhahahahaha
all Yea Forums does is bitch

>Smoke goes up in the air and she just disappears, it's just dumb.
She blocks the attack, there's a huge conflagration, where you can't see her, the gang is thrown back, and while they're getting up and coughing waiting for the smoke to clear so they can see where she was, for like 6 seconds, she's already used the ruined house wall to get up to the longer wall behind it. Or she just went through the doorway, and circled around to run behind the building, and is sneaking through the city. Because she's shown to be smart, acrobatic, and deceptive. Nothing is implausible about this scene.

not Yea Forums per say, my friend is one of many singing the praises of this show in particular.

If that's the case then she's just behind the door, and the conflict isn't resolved at all, they act like she's gone, the scene acts like she gone, nothing implies she's there anymore, its just incredibly lazy.

The gang doesn't budge, all that happens is smoke appears for whatever reason and within 2 seconds she's gone and the entire conflict is subverted.

the cover leads off to the right so she probably just snuck off that way. do you need your hand held through everything you watch?

No, i just need logical explanations for things that don't make any sense.

you've been given plenty this entire thread, you're just being stubborn because god forbid you be wrong about something.

No i haven't all your explanations are incredibly lazy and nonsensical

>She can block the attacks and get out of their in 2 seconds just because
makes no sense

>She's just went through the door and is hiding behind the wall
A suddenly all the characters surrounding her a stupid, and toph can't tell she's there even though she's blind

>She's just acrobactic lol
It's not about being acrobactic, it's the fact that she can get out of there by the time the smoke clears and no one even knows where she is.

especially tough who doesn't even use her eyes to see, it's a massive plot from for
"their vision was obscured"
to explain why no one saw her leave, saw how she left, knew if she left, or for her to leave in the fist place.

I guess toph suffered from the suddenly retarded symdrome characters get for plot convince.

As i said, it's a poorly written show, 5/10 at best.

wow i'm tired, a lot of errors here.

Basically any arguments implying that their vision being obscured somehow explains her escaping, goes out of the window since toph is blind, and unless azula can fly a super sonic speeds there's no way she blocked their attack and got out of their without anyone noticing.

It's actually cringe inducing looking at their dumbfounded faces afterwards.

shhhhh, the writer just forgot toph sees with her feet(even though they just had a scene in which her blindness got her to meet iroh), you can't blame them, i-it's just a kids show ;)

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whoa so you're telling me he praised a show that he likes?
was it incomprehensible to you that he kept liking the show even though you told him your 900IQ plot holes or something..? how dare he

lots of """"""""normies"""""""" will praise something like Death Note or FMAB or AOT, or whatever normal animefags like?, as the single best thing ever conceived and I'm sure if you watched them you'd turn your nose up at them too. this is normal behaviour and not anything specific with cartoonfags or ATLAfags.

yeah it's not like she was just knocked on her ass and spent 2 days on the run without any sleep or anything

you're using this one scene to say the entire show as a whole is mediocre and that's really fucking stupid to me. but let's analyze this deeper because it's fun.
>gets out in 2 seconds
just rewatched the scene now and the cloud of smoke lasts for a total of 10 seconds. considering how fucking fast azula is, it's perfectly within reason that within that frame of time she could run behind cover or straight up vault over that wall and just start running. or vault on top of the wall and jump to a higher point that wouldn't be detected by toph's radar. or any number of things. i understand you're probably not the most agile person, but any decently fit person can make it pretty far on a 10 second sprint, never mind someone like azula.
>she's just hiding behind the wall
you said that, not anyone else. cover and standing perfectly still are not the same thing despite what 3rd person shooter games will tell you. with a 10 second gap as opposed to the 2 second gap you keep proposing, it's perfectly reasonable that she could have cleared that particular area of cover and gone somewhere else.
>it's her getting out of the area by the time the smoke clears
considering every factor i've just mentioned as well as the fact that she rode into town on a giant, very fast lizard that can get her out even faster once she gets to it, her escaping is not unreasonable. what you seem to have a problem with is the fact that the gang doesn't give chase, not her actually getting away. my question to you is why would they bother? they're all completely exhausted which is the entire conflict of the episode if you didn't notice, iroh was just heavily wounded so at the very least zuko, the only other able-bodied firebender against her isn't going to pursue, toph just made friends with the guy and katara wants to help him. but no, just leave this nice old man to suffer so you can chase down azula and do what exactly? call me crazy but i think aang would be against just killing her.

They're for kids. An inherently stupid demographic.

He was saying it's one of the best shows ever, silly me i thought he was grading all entertainment with the same standards.

Little did i know cartoons get special needs tier treatment, shit like bad writing, plot convinces, inconsistencies and what not get a blind eye because "cartoons xD".
Yet anyone movie/anime fan will often notice these things, even in their favorite films and judge them properly.

Death Note, FMAB, and AOT are by no means perfect, but you don't see just out right bad writing and cope outs like you'll see in avatar.
And even when they do have an obvious cope out, there's at least some kind of explanation.

Like when Ed, gets impailed with a log of iron, and has to heal the wound, off rip it's completely bullshit that he survives that at all, but the show at least attempts to explain how he did it.
It doesn't just happen, to be forgotten about completely.

AOT and Death note in particular, are filled with satisfying and unexpected twist, that work thanks to a lot of well done foreshadowing and set up, a lot of things are obvious, but that's almost also intended, when they want to surprise you will, and it will makes sense within context of the universe.
The shows work in paticular because they give themselves set rules and are consistent when playing with them and finding smart back door solutions.

In the case of avatar they don't even attempt that, they just have things happen because a happy or convient ending is more important then one that makes sense, all 3 anime you mention are more concerned with making sense, then a happy little ending.

Funny how they are all supposed to be tired yet, they can fight azula perfectly fine, and toph can see her perfectly fine.

It's more like the sleepy thing was a gimmick and had no meaningful consequence on the action.
If this where written by talented people, it would've, and maybe azulas escape wouldn't have been such a blatant asspull.

>my question to you is why would they bother? they're all completely exhausted which is the entire conflict of the episode if you didn't notice, iroh was just heavily wounded so at the very least zuko, the only other able-bodied firebender against her isn't going to pursue, toph just made friends with the guy and katara wants to help him.
This. OP is hung up on the fact that they were supposedly cheated out of a win, forgetting that they GOT a win. The premise of the episode was that Azula's team was after them in a fast vehicle, and they couldn't stop to make camp. Azula being forced to flee and regroup with Ty Lee and Mai meant the kids could finally get away.

>Death Note, FMAB, and AOT are by no means perfect, but you don't see just out right bad writing and cope outs like you'll see in avatar.
PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
>near's agent is just able to replace an entire death note's worth of pages in perfectly replicated writing in a single night
>L tells light that he knows exactly where he is in the country and doesn't simply assume that kira will flee the country
>there's an entire orphanage of little tismos exactly like L each with their own little quirks because that doesn't take away from his character at all by making what originally seemed like an extraordinary character seem mundane and expected
but no someone escaping in a cloud of smoke is bad writing

There's a fucking door right there man

A literal fucking door

>you're using this one scene to say the entire show as a whole is mediocre
No i'm not, this was just one of MANY scenes.
This thread is not about me pointing out all of this shows dog shit writing.

It assumes we all know the writing is bad, but why do cartoonfags tolerate it, or pretend it's not important, opposed to fans of other mediums.

I can make a thread tearing every episode apart, that's no the point of the thread, it's you autist who are getting upset that the show is poorly written and trying to defend the bad writing.

>You have a problem with the gang no giving chase
No I have a problem with the villain being corner by everyone, and that some how blocked all their attacks and escaped within 2 seconds before the smoke cleared.

The smoke was supposed to have obscured their vision so that she could escape, yet toph is blind and so there's no reason for the smoke to obscure her.
It's especially stupid since just prior we saw toph shfit the floor directly under azulas feet, and she suddenly can't do that now, or see because the plot demands toph becomes retarded so azula can get away, it's just bad writing.

Why didn't they just look behind the building?

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the fact that you don't give any other examples makes you seem quite a bit more like the autist here considering you're hyperfixated on one thing and can't even give quick one sentence examples for other instances of bad writing in the show. i'm not even saying avatar doesn't have instances of bad or lazy writing because the finale exists, but the example you're hyperfixated on is really fucking bad and it makes you look stupid and your points look worse.

Because there's no way she could have gotten there that fast. She just disappeared.

>near's agent is just able to replace an entire death note's worth of pages in perfectly replicated writing in a single night
That's perfectly within the abilities of the autistic people who work for the elite.

>L tells light that he knows exactly where he is in the country and doesn't simply assume that kira will flee the country
Mind games, is death notes bread a butter

>there's an entire orphanage of little tismos exactly like L each with their own little quirks because that doesn't take away from his character at all by making what originally seemed like an extraordinary character seem mundane and expected
I personally didn't like this reveal, but it makes sense that someone like L would be recreated, his too valuable, in terms of writing it just makes sense

Escaping in a cloud of smoke is meme tier writing, especially when vision being obscured isn't even a factor for one of your characters.

s-shut up
anime is perfect. i-it's not even possible to bitch about them like I've been doing.

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No, my issue is with her escaping at all, not with them chasing her afterwards.

The only place she could logically get to by the time the smoked cleared is behind the wall, and in that case, it's not a matter of chasing her she's simply right there.

>The only place she could logically get to by the time the smoked cleared is behind the wall
But that's totally wrong.

Yes, a door with a wall behind it, a literal fucking wall.
A a literal fucking tough who doesn't even see with her eyes, and shouldn't be dumbfounded by visual obscursion.

Its for kids, kids dont necessarily need good writing to like a show
A lot of adults dont need it either, as a lot of popular adult geared shows prove. Its more important that the show is fun to watch

WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST RIDE THE EAGLES

Why doesn't toph just see her with her feet? Can azula fly?

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>Yes, a door with a wall behind it, a literal fucking wall.
I've seen parkour guys scale walls bigger than that in a couple seconds. We've discussed this already, Azula is skilled enough at traversal that she was easily able to scale large buildings in the ruins for a height advantage. She'd basically have no excuse NOT to be able to get away.

I did give other examples Naming every issue just dillutes the thread

While this is dumb, there's still at least an attempt to explain it. That's the difference.
Cartoons don't even feel the need to explain or justify their bullshit.

>That's perfectly within the abilities of the autistic people who work for the elite.
how fucking interesting that you account for the abilities of a character (a poorly established one as well, mind you) in this instance, but not in the one you're criticizing, that doesn't sound like a massive fucking bias at all.
>Mind games, is death notes bread a butter
yes and straight up not at all considering or accounting for something the opposing party could potentially do is shit mind games. L doesn't even give so much as a mention as to why he doesn't consider it, why fleeing the country wouldn't work, or establish that he, for example, has agents set up at airports all over the region that would prevent a panicked kira from doing exactly that. we know why light doesn't do it but L sure as shit doesn't.
>but it makes sense that someone like L would be recreated, his too valuable, in terms of writing it just makes sense
no it really doesn't, because ease of being replaced and irreplaceable value are two highly opposing things. why bother taking such care to protect L down to his face and identity when there's an entire fucking academy full of people exactly like him ready to go? near is a fucking child and he's practically even more of an autistic savant asspull god than L was. what about the people raising these little tismos, surely they must be of some value considering they raise these children to be expert detectives, but it's never considered, let's just use some pasty shota to solve this case. it seems like the people who are too valuable are the people not being put in the line of fire of a serial killer in the first place.

You're right, the only place she could get to, is nowhere, the blast from all 4 of them should've at least knocked her on her ass, and so she should at best just be laying there by the time the smoke clears, thanks its even more shit then i thought.

Escape for the fact that they would see her running away, escape for the fake that the explosion would've knocked her on her ass, escape the fact that tough is blind and just 5 second prior shifted the floor directly under azulas ass when she tried to escape the first time.

>the blast from all 4 of them should've at least knocked her on her ass
Oh THAT'S why you think she wouldn't have enough time. Jesus dude, she just directed the blast away from her because she's a fire bender, Zuko didn't because he was thrown off his game from just seeing his uncle take a nasty hit, and is a less powerful bender than Azula anyway.

>I just started watching avatar and i'm 3 seasons in, it's a solid 5/10

Fuck off back to Yea Forums faggot.

>the average show to me is a 5/10 like this one
I dont understand why people like this just dont read books or something, its obvious that a visual medium wouldnt be your favorite

There's no bias here, the scenes are fundamentally different in that the climax of death note is like a meeting, once everyone has gather their cards, its not in the heat of the moment asspull. These are all things that have already happened, and are being revealed for the first time to the viewers outside of foreshadowing.

I've no doubt azula is acrobatic, it just doesn't make sense that she could block all of their attacks and get away as fast as she did.
More so it makes no sense that no one saw here, especially toph. It's just bad writing.

>It's shit mind games
There's nothing to say he didn't account for that, unless they say he didn't, we can just assume he did, it makes no difference.

>Why protect the original
Because they aren't as good as L, they could only do so much because of all the work L already did.
It's just stupid to not have a back up plain or attempt to strike lightning twice, if you have the resources then it would be bad writing to not use them.

>As it is, avatar is just 5/10 mindless entertainment, with a good wholesome message and fun characters.
Eh, i was gonna discuss you but this is actually a correct answer

so Ed being able to enter Pride's stone because he uh er hm er uh uhh er used a Philosopher's Stone to heal himself earlier, is more believable than Azula jumping a small wall in the cover of smoke?

that scene always pissed me off because it's like Ed...why not just punch him? he was already crumbling away so why enter the void of screaming souls? I still don't even really know what he did exactly, did he...crush Pride's soul? I don't really care that much t b h though.

No "THATS" not why, there's 100 reason in this thread all explaining why its bullshit, and your explanation for "this" doesn't make any sense either.

Being a fire bender, doesn't make her ammune to the momentum of other attacks, explosions don't just go one way.
The entire scene doesn't make sense.

I'm more concerned with how she was able to disappear in a puff of smoke, how no one saw her, especially toph.

>explosions don't just go one way.
...Unless you redirect them with your established supernatural powers. You're really bad at this.

>I don't really watch cartoons

Neither do the execs, censors, or christian watchdog groups.

Cable TV cartoons and streaming produced shows are getting dipshits, for lack of a better word, that have figured out that they can put up just about anything and if it doesn't get noticed then they don't get fired.

Although I think the reason why they do that is usually because they are degenerates from the internet like us and rhey want ro throw some pandering message like the big boy TV shows.

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It's more belivable then Azula deflecting all of their attacks, being directly next to the explosion and sustaining no damage or being thrown on her ass.

Then some how escaping in the puff of smoke, with everyones vision obscured, while fucking TOPH IS RIGHT THERE, and see's with her damn feet.

It makes zero sense, and is lazily written and unlike FMAB bullshit, they don't even attempt to explain it.

That's the big difference really, imagine that ed scene with zero explanation and how much worse it is.

heres a secret user. avatar isn't actually a good show. it just has a good villain.

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>Azulafags think their character made the show
>Despite season 1 not having her in the plot at all

Delusion at its finest.

You're really really bad at this, it's fire bending not explosion bending.
Even if it was explaned that she could bend explosion, that doesn't mean she can out right stop the momentum of everyones attacks.

It doesn't mean she could escape in a puff of smoke, and it doesn't make toph retarded.

She isn't a villain, dipshit.

Jong jong did it

This response is nonsense. The first season was juvenile garbage.

Stop spacing like a retard, this isn't fucking reddit.

More or less people were so starved for an action cartoon that the bar was very low. After a while it builds fans and fans are resistant to critical criticism, to some degree.

A villain who needs cope out bullshit solutions, is no good villain in my opinion.

Finally, I can use this dumb picture that's been sitting in my PC for years.

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Season 1 is the weakest season by far. You had Aang being a generic anime character. It isn't until the later episodes when character development and charismatic characters shine.

There's an open fucking doorway right next to here she's not cornered.
You're also forgetting she completely outclasses them for the entirety of the series and only ever manages to lose because of being outnumbered.

Someone redpill me on azulatripfags

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Your opinion no longer matters Azulafag, now fuck off.

This, the show isn't actually good, people are just afraid to critique it. it's a 5/10 at best

I don't care if she outclasses them, she's outnumbered HERE.
She can hide behind the door, that doesn't save her from all 5 of them.
TOPH IS RIGHT FUCKING THERE.

>people are just afraid to critique it.

That's horseshit and you know it. We live in an age where it's cool to be contrarian so I'm sure there are plenty of critiques to find about Avatar.

To be fair to Katara she's manipulated the water in other stuff multiple times, even just in that episode, and had someone to explain it to her while Hama had to learn it on her own. Even Amon and Tarlock learned it as children. Any waterbending master could probably do it under a full moon if they lacked the ethics and had a Guinea pig.

But Avatar does have a lot of that really contrived plot instances and randomly nerfing characters because if they wont the series would end. Still love it though.

I'll believe when i see a
"Avatar is the worst show ever and heres why!"

>he fell for the reddit spacing meme
this is Yea Forums
most of you cucks are from tumblr or reddit
spacing has nothing to do with what website you migrated from and there have been different posting styles for the last 15 years.

Season 1 sucks gorilla balls its basically unwatchable.

>Defending the weeb and his use of spacing
Unironically jump off a bridge with your weeb boyfriend

>imagine that ed scene with zero explanation and how much worse it is.
there wasn't really though
which is why you'll see people try to explain it by saying Ed learned stuff from the Gate of Truth that let him know how to do this, which is 100% bullshit

and I think the big climatic death of the strongest Homunculus is a bigger moment than a random Azula escaping scene?

this is also reminding me of how in HxH there's a moment where Kurapika just somehow manages to kidnap the big bad of the arc right in front of his entire group of baddies, who should all have pseudo-sensing abilities, during a 5 second power outage. and it wouldn't be wrong to say this is the turning point of the whole arc so a big deal. but despite this the Yorknew arc is the arc everyone faps to, aside from maybe Chimera Ant depending on the person. which is fine.

t. Azulafags

>cope out bullshit solutions
youre a stupid autist. this show utilizes whats basically magic an uncountably high number of times. THIS one instance of stupidity in an ATLA fight scene out of thousands is what grinds your balls?

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1. I haven't seen Korra and amon, but you can't use later shit to justify past shit, it only works one way.

2. Hama had to practice it for years on rats before she could use it on people, this to imply that it takes actually practice to do

3. It's just flat out stupid for katara to learn it instantly, and immediately resolve the conflict of the episode.

>anime fans actually call out bad and lazy writing
ninja please

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theres no such thing as lazy writing in a cartoon because cartoons are by nature a lazy medium.

>there wasn't really though
But there was, it's not the best explanation, but it's better then nothing.

Random azula escaping scene, is far bigger because that's just one humunculus who had already played most of his role in the plot at that point, if they beat azula here as they should've the entire rest of show falls flat on its face, because she's so instrumental to making so much shit happen.

You can't even refute his points so you have to insult his formatting. You spend your time arguing over children's cartoon's and you're too stupid to articulate yourself.
Have a nice day, faggot.

You're lost, let me help you out of here.

Go cry somewhere else you filthy weeb lover.

All of the stupid fight scenes grind my balls.
This one grinds my balls the hardest because without this asspull, half the show doesn't happen.

for the most part the action is completely filler and vapid, just something cool to look at, there are no real consequences as a result. Stoping Azula, half way into season 2 has major consequences on the entire show.
And so this poorly written ass pull is exceptionally shitty.

user do you have a problem with this? i mean its also physically impossible. fuck this show they dont care about physics

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She was outnumbered because of Iroh. The four of them of them wasn't enough to overpower her without Iroh.
Its that simple. All the reasons were put in your face and you deny them.
It wasn't poorly written. It was just blueballing.

>because without this asspull, half the show doesn't happen.
That's bullshit and you know it. First off, there's no way if they captured her, they would have executed her. Second, there's no way she would respond to any attempts to reform her, because she's perfectly satisfied being a sociopath loyal to the Fire Nation's interests and to her own advancement. Third, she would absolutely find some way to escape from their capture. The only thing Azula escaping there rather than later accomplishes is a more streamlined narrative, something certain anime could stand to try, once in a while. They turned the tables on Azula, she escaped, allowing the heroes to escape her.

Funny, cause i'm watching this episode right now.
I don't, because it's completely inconsequential, filler action, just for fun, slapstick humor etc.
There are no plot implications here, and you can remove this scene entirely a nothing changes.

I seriously doubt there is a piece of fiction of any kind out there without some kind of "asspull" or "bad writing"
This isn't a cartoon problem, it is a storytelling "problem". if it even is a problem. No matter what you tell me, you can't deny that that pic related scene was awesome and if it needed to sacrifice some "logic/good writing" to do so then it seems like a good trade to me.

Please i'd know better than 99% of you that animation is lazy. your cartoons are made by a bunch of out of shape miserable introverts who got into animation because they thought they'd never have to talk to people or look away from a computer screen. they never see the sun and only get exercise when they walk from their desks to the shitty grunt worker parking lot way out in east fucking jesus.

First season is bad.......

They don't have power levels autismo, they outnumber her.
Tough can knock her off balance, they don't have to all attack at once, they have her surrounded.
There's just way too much plot connivance here to allow her to escape and it's at the detriment of the writing.

Even if she can just block them all, there's no way she escapes in a puff of smoke and is nowhere too be found, especially since. TOPH.IS.RIGHT.FUCKING.THERE

btfo

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>something that you expect to happen doesnt happen
>"REEEE SHIT WRITING"
zoomers are a cancer upon this board.

(You)

you're seriously saying Azula escaping in some random episode was a bigger moment than Pride's death and rebirth? alrighty.

>But there was, it's not the best explanation, but it's better then nothing.
I'd tell you to tell me what you think the explanation is but I know it'll just be "he used a Philosopher's Stone earlier" which doesn't actually explain anything, and I don't care and you don't care.

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>That's bullshit and you know it. First off, there's no way if they captured her, they would have executed her
What where they expecting to happen when a fire ball, water whip, air blast, boomerange and earth blast where to hit her?
You're just making more plot holes.

Since this is a kid show, she should've been knocked out and put in a insane asylum like she was by the end of the show, just much earlier on.

It wasn't assume at all, just stupid

Okay, then what about this? Why does she suddenly have spiderman powers? why aren't you raging about this?

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>The show breaks any sense of logic and characters become retarded for the plot sake and forget how to use the powers!

bad writing is bad writing grandpa.

People in Avatar can take quite a beating from the elements.

>you're serousiy saying the most compelling, interesting, and threatening villian for the entirety of the show thus far, getting beaten sooner then later would have massive implications of the remaining arcs is more important then a vllian who's done all he can for the plot and is being removed from the story???

Yes, yes i am

>What where they expecting to happen when a fire ball, water whip, air blast, boomerange and earth blast where to hit her?
In all likelihood given previous fights? That would have just knocked her unconscious if it had hit her.

You're by far one of the most stubborn autistic guys I've seen this week, OP.

worst argument ive ever seen, all of the bending attacks look like they'd crush you like a grape if they were real life, yet LITERALLY NO ONE ever gets seriously hurt unless the plot calls for it.

Only, when it's convient for the plot since the writing is so bad and inconsistent.

Other times, a stubby rock and kill you just because.

>breaks any sense of logic
nigga what? characters have gotten out of way worse situations than this. by your logic toph should have just instakilled anyone who goes up against her.

He's from Yea Forums so it's only natural his autism is this high.

>Other times, a stubby rock and kill you just because.
now i know youre bullshitting, because not only is this not true, but it never happened once in any form of the franchise.

>they don't have power levels
seething denial
>Tough can knock her off balance, they don't have to all attack at once, they have her surrounded.
>surrounded
They did until she took out Iroh. They put her in check, she checkmated Iroh. Game over.
>There's just way too much plot connivance here to allow her to escape and it's at the detriment of the writing.
Nope. You're just trying to place Toph's skill equal or above Azulas.

The only thing you can do is write off Azula as a mary sue. You have no arguments.
Take a deeper questioning of your own intelligence rather than the writers of the show.

Blueballing =/= bad writing. Its just infuriating.

>getting beaten sooner
that isn't what happens
why are you making the scene more important than it is, you can remove the entire episode and nothing changes except Toph meeting Iroh and him getting burned. specifically the scene of Azula escaping didn't even need to happen at all. Pride's death is a WAY bigger moment for the narrative.

she's always been acrobatic, never said she wasn't.
I said she isn't fast enough to have blocked all their attacks and escaped them all in a puff of smoke, with toph right there

well because shes best girl /thread

His from Yea Forums so naturally he has standards for his entertainment media.

>whole argument is based on toph
sorry to break it to you, but toph has never been very fast with her bending.

That's because avatar is a poorly written mess of a show, it's more about the happy ending and good moral message then making an actual sense, recognizing this i rate it a solid 5/10.

>t. shonen fag

Low standards.

>so naturally he has standards for his entertainment media.
Does Senpai pay you to suck his dick this much user?

>I don't really watch cartoons
Did you get lost? Why are you here?

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Not by my logic, by the logic of the show.
Not just toph, many characters do out right absurd things with their bending all the time, but convient can or can't depending on the plot, which is consistent bad writing just all throughout the show in just about of instance of action.

I can usually let it slide because most of the action, is just for fun and entirely inconsequential to the plot, expect for when it isn't, then it's just bad.

>OP is an animefag of the worst sort, the "Nippon is always superior to filthy western cartoons" type
>Friend tries to introduce OP to a show he thinks OP might like
>OP watches the show, and then proceeds to argue for 5 hours on a Malaysian shadow puppet forum that the show is a 5/10 and can never reach the heights of anime writing, because there was maybe a bit of leniency on the writers' part to let a villain escape mid-season.
>As if anime hasn't had some of the most famous ass-pulls in animated history.
This is advanced autism.

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damn that's one stubby rock.

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>, by the logic of the show.
my fucking ass.
your whole argument is based on what you want to happen, and not how the show has portrayed things. you think that just because toph can sense things means she can react to them instantly, when in fact thats not fucking true, she has limits like everyone else. if what you were going with was true then any conflict in the show would be pointless because fucking toph has superhuman reflexes and has no limits.

no wonder you made this thread, you probably just got done watching dragon ball super.

It's not just that, he has been given plausible explanations of what might have happened but he keeps insisting "durr...muh 2 seconds... muh toph!!!..."

You're actually autistic, and didn't refute a single point, and now you're claiming avatar has power levels.
"blue balling" isn't a literacy device, you can use it to describe the bad writing, sure but they aren't mutually exclusive.

Are you trying to say, toph couldn't see her because her power level is too high?
Or that her power level is so high, toph can no longer shift the floor under her feet to stop her from escaping like she did 5 seconds ago?

>half the size of his fucking body
OP confirmed for blind.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflex

Toph could have also done a little bit more than just make azula stumble a little and throw some dirt.

>You can remove the entire episode and nothing changes....except for important character development for Toph, Iroh and Ruko. The catalyst for iroh to feel like he has to teach zuko redirecting and lightning bending, all things which have major implications on the rest of the story.

I'm not making it any bigger then the story does.

The heroes have the biggest baddest villian completely at their mercy, and she just magically escape in a puff of smoke even though toph is right fucking there and doesn't even see with her eyes.
If the scene had many any sense she wouldn't have been able to escape and half the show doesn't happen.

Seeing herself cornered, Azula tapped into the Ultra Instinct and escaped.
Is that a good explanation for you, Yea Forumsspie?

Argument is based on many thing, Tophs mere existence just kills any arguments that azule escaped thanks to the smokescreen the blast created.

>Tophs mere existence just kills any arguments that azule escaped thanks to the smokescreen the blast created.
no, it fucking doesnt for many reasons.
you seem to think that toph has no limits to her earth bending and can act instantaneously, when that has almost never happened before. toph isnt as big of a factor as you make her out to be.

also learn 2 spell

toph is overrated

Maybe azula jettet away, not like real sozins comet flying but more the stufe she did during the underground Ba Sing Se fight.

>OP is an animefag of the worst sort, the "Nippon is always superior to filthy western cartoons" type
I explicitly stated, anime is in no way a better medium, it's just odd to me how animefans actually call out bullshit, and don't lower the bar for their entertainment like cartoon fans do.

Stop stawmanning like a fucking idiot, this isn't about avatar being 5/10(which it is)
It's about the low standards of cartoonfags, and why that is, opposed to other fans of other mediums, namely movies and anime.

The true autism here is your lack of reading comprehension.

This but especially with The Clone Wars series.

I sincerely love that series for what it is, but the constant tone shifts between gritty war series and children's show in the first few seasons really bothered me. Eventually the show hit it's stride down the stretch and turned it into an excellent series.

stubby doesn't refer to the size of an object.
user confirmed for retarded and illiterate.

Can I ask what did you exactly expect Toph to do here? Her being blind doesn't make her invulnerable to getting smoke to her eyes or something.

>stubby: short and thick
learn2english

wasnt a lot of atla affected by a writers strike?

My argument isn't based on what i want to happen, I want azula to get away and continue to antagonize the group, i just want it to make sense within context of the world.
I just want it to not have to come at the cost of good writing, for characters to suddenly become retarded, for issues to be resolve with zero explanation.

It's not a matter of having super quick reflexes, Tough literally shifted the floor directly under Azula, knocking her off balance, and stopping her from getting away 5 seconds prior to when they corner her.

There's absolutely nothing stopping her from doing this again when they have her cornered.
There's absolutely no reason, why Azula should be able to disappear under the mask of smoke, when someone like tough doesn't even use her eyes to see.

I honestly agree, I think avatar is one the the better mainstream cartoons of the 21st century but still isn't that great

>It's not a matter of having super quick reflexes
yes it fucking is you braindead shonen fag. azula was caught off guard when toph shifted the floor, but now she expects it an can plan against it. meanwhile toph thought she couldnt have tried anything, but she did and was caught off guard herself.
unlike anime, people dont have instantaneous reflexes.

(You)She could've, but the plot demanded that toph forget she's a master earth bender, and that she actually does become blind so that azula can escape.

No one said, anything about acting instantaneously, being blind just means a smoke screen has no effect on her at all.

She didn't need super reflexes to trip up azula 5 seconds prior, she doesn't need them now either.

No one has instantaneous reflexes, i don't even know why you pull this term out of your ass, you've lost this argument hours ago.

Unless she can fly, just jumping with fire doesn't put her out of their range, it also takes quite a bit of movement before she can even initiate that motion, so there's no way she blocked, their attack and jetted away without anyone seeing her.

seereflexes are more than just how long it takes for you to do something. she had to react to it was as well. if Azula can get caught off guard, so can toph.

and not once in my posts did i ever say anything about a smoke screen.

Azula tried to escaped long before they cornered her.
Before this could happen toph shifted the floor directly below her feet and stopped her from getting away.

There's no reason why toph can't do this again, making her susceptible to everyones attaks. or just prevented her to escape under the smoke, which she wouldn't be able to do anyways unless she where sonic.

>It's about the low standards of cartoonfags, and why that is, opposed to other fans of other mediums, namely movies and anime.
You don't know anything about it, man. From what I can tell, this is your first thread here. We have tons of threads pointing out the flaws in cartoons, you just don't know it because you don't watch or talk about cartoons.

well shit, show should have been over when toph was introduced since she could just floor bend everyone and no one could use their brain to plan against it.

youre really smart, user.

>Why didn't Toph just bury the entire Fire Nation?

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You're the retarded shounenfag, no one said anything about instantaneous reflexes or anything like that.

There's nothing azula can do to "plan against it", nothing implies "toph couldnt have tried anything"
You're just making shit up.
Azula can't move while make her fire sheild, perfect opportunity to shift the floor and knock her off balance, breaking her form.

This in addition to azula being unable to escape behind the smoke, since smoke has no effect on toph either way.

You don't have to say anything about a smoke screen, the show did.
The explosion obscured the vision, toph being blind is uneffected, and unless azula started flying toph would be able to tell where she is.

Toph can be caught off gaurd no one said she couldn't, the writers just made her retarded for no reason, and she throws a mud blast? instead of just shifting the floor to knock azula off balance when she tries to defend the attacks.

The only way they can get azula out of the situation is by writing toph and everyone around her to be retarded for the sake of the plot, it's bad writing and a consistent issue with the show.

Why do you say smoke has no effect on Toph? Sure, she can see the way she leaves but being blind doesnt make her invulnerable towards damage to the eyes lol

That's fine, people can use their brain to plan against it.

What was azulas plan against it? from what i saw azula stayed firmly on the ground as she made a fire sheild, not exactly the best plan against floor bending.

It looked more like toph forgot she could do what she just did for the sake of the plot.

>Azula can't move while make her fire sheild, perfect opportunity to shift the floor and knock her off balance, breaking her form.
your whole argument is based off her having superhuman reaction times.
>Toph can be caught off gaurd no one said she couldn't,
except you did, because thats quite literally what happened.

>There's nothing azula can do to "plan against it", nothing implies "toph couldnt have tried anything"

are you reading your own posts

>hm er uh uhh er used a Philosopher's Stone to heal himself earlier
No, he literally used his own soul to heal himself before. That's how he knows how to convert it. Fucking speedwatchers.

wow you're retarded, no one said she can't take damage to the eyes, i said smoke can obscure her version, it has no effect on her

There's nothing super human about shifting the floor under azula, she just did it previously.

No i didn't say she couldn't be caught of gaurd, being caught of guard and responding to azula aren't mutually exclusive, she had enough time to direct a mud blast or whatever she could've just done the floor slide, especially since she just did it.

I think you should, and while you're at it maybe watch the episode, instead of pulling shit out of your ass.

"but now she expects it an can plan against it."
Please explain, i missed this part, how does she plan against it?

Granted that's pretty stupid, and it pretends to have weight on consequence with "i wont get to grow old", but the story ends long before that and so this cope out plot device doesn't actually have any real consequence or trade off.

It was just a get out of jail free card.
BUT. it made sense within context of the story and has some kind of explanation for why it happened.

Like the writer just knows she's being held to a standard in which she must justify these things, unlike cartoons writers with their autistic ass fans who just eat their dog shit writing.

god damn this thread is autistic as fuck

>Azula can't move while make her fire sheild
Okay
> perfect opportunity to shift the floor and knock her off balance
True, however, Toph was also attacking at the same time as aang, zuko, kattara and sokka, so she couldn't also move the earth. Also we could say that she was acting on instinct because like everyone else because she just saw an old man(also the old man who gave her tea and advice) get hit.
>This in addition to azula being unable to escape behind the smoke
How? There was a door right next to her.
>since smoke has no effect on toph either way.
Yes but there was an explosion which knocked them back. Toph can't exactly get Azula while she is being knocked back by an explosion or while Azula's already gone. We can argue that Toph knew which way she escaped once she found her footing again but what do you expect toph to do? Capture Azula all by herself? What did you expect the gAang to do? Pursue the deadly killer who has been chasing them nonstop without letting them rest? And what did you expect Zuko to do? Leave his uncle who just got hit?

>Why didn’t a character in a split-second combat situation use a move that that I believe would have worked, having thought of it after several hours arguing about it online, rather than a move that I know with hindsight didn’t work?
>This is a serious plot hole that needs to be adressed
You don’t know what bad writing is, OP. Anime has rotted your brain.

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>however, Toph was also attacking at the same time as aang, zuko, kattara and sokka,
That's because the writers decided to make her and everyone else, retarded for the sake of the plot.

>There was a door next to her xD
What did she lock it behind her?, does the door lead to another dimention?
Or is she just now on the other side of a wall toph can see through?

>The explosion knocked them back!
1,The explosion would've knock them both back, an explosion isn't fire and it can't be controleld by azula
2. the explosion doesn't knock any of them back
toph, never lost her footing
3. Azula would need to be able to reach top speed instantaneously to be gone by the time the smoke clears
4. toph can see either way.

And your strawmans just make you appear even dumber then you are.

Writing for shows is hard. The writing must be consistent, compelling, surprising, funny, imaginative, unexpected, fit within time and budget constraints and be done on a tight schedule. Children's cartoon writers suck because they are cynical adults that don't think kids deserve good stories. I've watched a few shows with writing so bad it made me angry, more often than not produced by the French.

But as bad as writing can get, it's always better than storyboard-driven cartoons. Those have terrible writing because it's basically a game of telephone from one boarder to the next. NEVER EVER EVER EVER MIX BOARD-DRIVEN SCRIPTLESS METHODS WITH DEEP LORE OR SERIALIZED STORYTELLING, IT WILL NOT WORK!

>Avatarfags just getting slaughtered

wow, about time. Hopefully this becomes a trend.

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>he thinks this is "getting slaughtered"
all animefags are doing here is embarrassing themselves.

>That's because the writers decided to make her and everyone else, retarded for the sake of the plot.
Yeah well ya'know what OP, she didn't. Maybe she didn't fucking think about that in literally 2 fucking seconds. Maybe she didn't think that she would shoot Iroh and was surprised.
Not every fucking character is this invincible thinking machine that knows exactly what to do at exactly what time to get exactly what they want! Toph doesn't have super-human reflexes and she doesn't have superhuman intelligence in order to think like that.
>the explosion doesn't knock any of them back
just rewatched the scene, fine they didn't get knocked back.

>he still cant grasp the concept of reaction time
id post a wojak meme here, but thats below me.

SU unironically had the best writing of any cartoon. if the animation was better it would be anime tier.

>Autistic fella obsessing over a minor issue
????
its just everyday Yea Forums lol

Just imagine if Azula were there from the start. No chance for the rest of the cast to shine. She is the best character. Villains make heroes, there is no glory in beating a weak evildoer. This is why the final fight was shit, it not only robbed Azula of a honest defeat but Zuko/the heroes of a proud victory. They beat up an unstoppable force turned to a mess of a character. I hope they do a better job with Claudia.

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Yeah, avatar is a show that gets shilled a lot yet is not deserving of it at all. I didn't go in expecting great writing but the show does leave a lot to be desired. I won't even bother criticizing Korra since that's a whole other beast. Shame, since the lore and animation are usually top notch.

>mfw reading this entire thread
Holy fuck OP, you are retarded.
I can understand not liking Avatar; maybe it's just not your thing. But to turn round and hold anime up as the example of good storytelling...
Hoo boy

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There have been anime with good stories, OP just didn't bother to give any examples.

because they're for children.

>katara can suddenly create a wave big enough to wipe them all out (sure would've been useful in that fight that literally just happened)
what fight are you referring to? if i recall correctly in the underground climax fight she had a gigantic amount of water to work with so she could make that massive wave. did she have the same water source in this other fight you're referencing?

if azula were there from the start the pilot would have been the finale

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Hell, here's a solution: Since their combo attack colliding with her flames caused an explosion, have the shockwave knock everyone on their ass while Azula does some flips over the walls, she was near the edge of the town. Bam, by the time everyone is getting up, they're getting distracted with Zuko and Iroh, and Azula's hoofing it to wherever she parked her lizard.

toph could just sense her and bend her into the floor.

Depends on how quickly Toph gets back up and if Azula's within range. And that was something that did seem to vary at times. In some, Toph could tell if someone was approaching while they were still several yards away, but in other cases the person would be practically on top of the kids just her radar sense picked them up. While I know she was sensing Azula's tank in this episode, we can chalk that up to the vibrations it was causing reaching her.

doesnt change the fact that toph could have just bended the floor the moment she started to move.

When Toph got back up, sure. But again, that depends on how quick she gets back up after the hypothetical shockwave knocks everyone down. Azula might have been able to call the lizard as she got over the wall, or it was nearby that she was able to jump to it. Even without bending, many of the characters in the show were able to jump really good.

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It doesn't matter. Topher could have sensed her and floor bended her at any time. She literally cant be taken off guard since she doesn't use her eyes.

She would have been knocked over if the shockwave I mentioned happened. Not like she's that exceptional to avoid such a force.

Include me in the screencap.

Physical pain is an effect.

Or she would have jobbed to Katara more times instead of only two

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the smoke of that blast was black. Toph still is human and has lungs. maybe she lost her breath under all the black smoke

>you cant use future shit to justify past shit
Yeah except that's retarded. Worldbuilding doesnt only work in one direction. Future shit can better explain past shit.

2. It's far harder to create a technique you aren't sure is even possible than it is to learn one someone explained to you. Of course Katara learned a lot quicker.

3. What series have you been watching if it wasn't clear that Katara is a waterbending prodigy?

This

If Toph just said "She fucked off that-a-way, but let's not chase her because she finally forfeit, and it's been well established that we're tremendously tired right now." been enough for OP in terms of this particular fucking case?

She was probably distracted by her new nice friend about to die.

"...and I'm currently distracted by my new nice friend about to die." I wonder if OP caught on to literally any of this. Guess the idea of show don't tell didn't take autists into account.

That cool shot of a quadruple elemental blast just makes me wish that Zuko had joined the gaang sooner.

Is that a joke

Everybody remembers avatar with rose tinted glasses. I'd give it a 7/10, but I can see someone giving it an average score

So your difference is that she is retarded? good too know.

Never did that.
Learn to readYou seem more upset with the idea of anime being better then with anything i actually said.

??????
you're arguing from crumbs and missing the point.

>Future shit can better explain past shit.
That's called back tracking, another issue of incredibly bad writing.
Trying to justify bullshit way after the fact, doesn't make it okay when it happens.

It just lets the reader know that you recognized that you failed to make any valid explanation initially

>Katara is a mary sue just because so its okay
mary sues are a poorly written archetype in it of themselves.

If that's the case then they would've just let her get away when she first starts to run off.
They are the ones that CORNER her, and then all attack her together.
You have the dick of this show so far up your ass that you're misremembering and coping pleas, pathetic.

Read that post chain again, slowly this time.

make a valid argument next time, get this shows dick out of your ass.

So I went to sleep woke up and he's still at it? get some help dude

see ]they hadnt been defeated up until the point she redirects the mega blast at them and that was the final straw for them that they decided there's no point and we've had no sleep (see the final shot of the episode when theyre passed out on appa). she got away from the 10 sec black smoke blast (there was a door right beside her and a wall she used her athleticism to leap over and then ran off with her lizard)

Reddit

I dont think you read it slowly. Really fire all two of those brain cells, user.

Dont waste your breath. Anyone who actually watched it could come to this conclusion, but this guy just doesn't have the mental capacity to understand such a simple sequence.

>watches a children's cartoon
>is upset about bad writing
Jesus. You're an adult. Watch whatever you want, but don't complain when you're watching something written for undeveloped minds and it doesn't meet your standards.

Plenty of people have called out Avatar's writing issues, it just gets drowned out by all the retards who think it's fantastic.
I personally think its premise is fucked from the start considering the limitations of a kid cartoon, and its world building extremely lazy on top of the usual specific plot issues.

Why does media for kids have to be made to a lower standard? I understand not being able to address complex concepts, but simply not having plot holes or otherwise inconsistent writing isn't beyond a child's comprehension. If anything feeding them substandard wirting will only give them shit taste as adults

to add to the fight was escalating to a point that both sides were uncomfortable with their ability to win. azula had just done a bunch of exhausting acrobatic parkour shit if i remember correctly and the mega blast redirect was probably her final hail mary attempt and used a significant portion of her energy. she had spent too much time fighting this group and realized it was getting dangerous so she used what energy she had left to stun the enemy which was just enough time to escape. on the gang's side, they were tired as fuck, they hadnt slept, they were now down their best fighter and friend (Iroh) and zuko as well because Iroh's health was more important to him at this point than a fleeing Azula (and probably the rest of the gang as well, after all Katara is very motherly and i dont think there's much water around there for her to bend to keep fighting azula). it wouldve been a depleted aang, toph, and katara with limited water supply chasing after her. iroh and zuko are out. the battle had escalated to a point that neither side wanted to risk losing even if they felt they could win (the risk wasnt worth the reward for both sides). honestly i remember it was one of my favorite endings which gave a great payoff on the final shot which called back to the opening shots

You should check out some indie/Euro feature animated movies, they're really the best the medium has to offer. Most cartoonfags only pay attention to cartoon shows because they're manchildren trying to recapture their childhood.

That's really not the kind of stuff you're supposed to ellipsis over.

Are you really pretending the end of book 3 isn't full of asspulls because he didn't specifically mentioned them?
How did the thread even go for so long without someone bringing up the chiropractor rock+lionturtles debacle? Are you trying to prove him right that people just ignore writing issues for some reason?

Why couldn't toph track her?

This thread is making me embarrassed to be a cartoonfag. You retards always say shit like "being for kids who isn't a good excuse for an inferior product" but now you throw that exact dumb shit at any outsider who points out that a cartoon had writing issues? The same cartoon of which we've been pointing out major plot issues for years?
What's with the hypocrisy? If this is your way of being defensive about your hobby, you're doing it wrong as you basically proved OP right. I'll apparently never stopped being amazed by the faggotry of Avatarfags.

>implying most TV doesn't have bad writing

Oh, sorry. Forgot I was a hive mind collective there for a second.

I thought Yea Forums was the writing police?

>just now realizing Yea Forums is a den for hypocrites

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Do your think being for kids is a valid excuse for an inferior product?
Do you think Avatar had no writing issues?
Are you just tap-dancing like a fag?

That's not what he implied. In fact he specifically said that it's not a matter of quality in and of itself but an issue of calling out bad quality.

Ive been reading through the thread and the problem is that this one scene is not a major plot issue and its existence is not something that detracts from the entire show or even that episode. Its one small scene and among the first actual showing of Azula, it ignores the context of that this is the impression that creators want to leave us with. That Azula is a monster of bender and fighter where is takes 5 to corner her and she can still escape. Its not the best example of writing but i be hard pressed to call it bad. Also Op's entire point that cartoons arn't criticized reeks of literally never been in a Yea Forums thread

I've been noticing patterns, like the hate on vulgar adult cartoon comedies for being childish but a constant insistence that cartoons would step out of the ghetto if we would just make vulgar adult cartoon drama, but it's never been this blatant. Or this seemingly hiveminded.

>Do your think being for kids is a valid excuse for an inferior product?
Nope. I just think an adult bitching about it is sad and pointless. It's for kids. They love it.
>Do you think Avatar had no writing issues?
Never seen it, just here to rustle your jimmies.
>Are you just tap-dancing like a fag?
See answer above.

The thing is you're ignoring the context of OP's post, where he says he doesn't usually watch cartoons (so obviously not a regular here), and talks about an issue larger than this specific scene.
But since it's arguable whether that scene is bad or not we'll just ignore all the people touting Avatar is 10/10 and Ehasz is a writing God, or the people itt pretending that there are no writing issues in it.

because there is a chance she'd lose. how is she going to even keep up with a freak lizard? she wont and she was tired. after the mega blast redirect gang had had enough and azula had had enough

Ah so option 3 it is then.

based

>But since it's arguable whether that scene is bad or not we'll just ignore all the people touting Avatar is 10/10 and Ehasz is a writing God, or the people itt pretending that there are no writing issues in it.
yeah except no one is saying that
ATLAfags are biased towards their show, but everyone's biased including the OP

he used his own energy to heal himself, he never departed from his body as a fucking soul and somehow can uh use his soul to crush Pride's soul... or something.

>Never seen it, just here to rustle your jimmies.
Patrician choice

>>Mary suetara
Jesus Christ you kids, she's a main character, holy fuck what's wrong with y'all.

EXaWcTly!
MaIN CHwaCTAh IS sUPPOed 2 B AweSuM xD, iT dUN hawve 2 MakE SwEnCe!

You took the time to type that out. That's a...thing...that you did.

Yeah.

That's not hard to do, i mean i guess for a new fag like you who only just started using a key board.

Wow, 100% non sequitur.

>>I've trained decades to master this technique
>>Mary suetara instantly perfects it
because Hama never tried it on a waterbender before. unlike the other fire, air, and earthbenders, another waterbender would be able to fight back vs bloodbending, since ya know they can bend water and all that and the fact that Katara is clearly a top tier waterbender as clearly displayed through the previous 2.5 seasons

to add to , what kind of combat experience has Hama even had? she's an old fucking rag of a woman by the time she meets Katara who is a young buck. the only waterbending shes ever done is controlling other people who its impossible to fight back since they cant bend water, shes never even been tested. what evidence do we have that bloodbending would even be that difficult for a young Katara waterbender in their prime to kick out of besides Hama telling us shes practiced it for years? perfectly plausible outcome that Katara would be able to overpower some old dusty hag who thought she was much stronger than she really was. it was literally just the previous episode we saw just how resourceful Katara can be (bending her sweat to escape)

>no plot where a group of earthbending extremists try to do just that

>ITT: OP has never been a kid playing with his toys where the bad guy escapes so he could continue the story the next day
I feel bad for you, OP.

>what evidence do we have that bloodbending would even be that difficult for a young Katara waterbender in their prime
I find the fact that we're shown that bloodbending is difficult for a young Katrara waterbender in her prime to be rather compelling evidence

So you never went into the unpopular opinions threads where fuckers act like they are breaking their chains against the hivemind.

>we're shown that bloodbending is difficult for a young Katrara waterbender in her prime to be rather compelling evidence
except we were shown the opposite. she overpowers Hama almost immediately. Katara's bending is more powerful than Hama's who has had zero combat training, 100 years old, and never been tested in a fight. she's only ever fucked with rats, NON-waterbenders. once again, it's clear that Hama was hyping herself up and believed herself bigger than she really was and that bloodbending was harder than it was (at least for Katara). we see Katara later bloodbend again in The Southern Raiders