This had the best cast of newcomers

This had the best cast of newcomers

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melee did. it was the best game in all aspects

Its weird I know its the second game in the series. I see the 64 game as a tech demo. I know its dumb I kinda consider melee the first game in the series.

"but"
please learn what this word does and use it in the future

>Melee
clone/rushdown bloat and false promises
>Brawl
a dream (great reveals) into a nightmare (terrible gameplay and balancing issues)
>Smash 4
Brawl's gains and shortcomings Part 2
>Smash 4 DLC
poorly managed last minute decisions because they were going to do Ultimate next
>Ultimate
boomer wank and false (self-)promises
>Fighter Pass 1
balanced
>Fighter Pass 2
a mistake

also Smash Run > Adevnture Mode >>>> World of Light overall = Subspace cutscenes and bosses >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subspace platformer levels

>Most wanted newcomer is a clone with an unfun play style
>Biggest excitement from the passes has a kit I just couldn't jibe with

how did they mess up ultimate so bad? all they had to do was copy and paste that game and add some characters yet they fucked it all up

No. They all sucked. It's either a clone, mismash of recycled animations/moves, or boring shit like Rob or Min Min with one or two good characters that turn out boring.

Smash is overrated garbage and the roster is terrible.

Except no one played that game because of the platform, so when we got to ultimate all those new characters were basically new again.

Well let's take a look
Wii U
>Rosalina
>Bowser Jr.
>Palutena
>Robin
>Little Mac
>Greninja
>Duck Hunt
>Villager
>Wii fit Trainer
>Shulk
>Pacman
>Megaman
>Miis
>>>Dark Pit, Lucina
with DLC
>Ryu
>Cloud
>Corrin
>Bayonetta

VS Ultimate

>>>Daisy, Dark Samus, Chrom, Richter, Ken
>King K. Rool
>Ridley
>Incineroar
>Isabelle
>Inkling
>Simon
with DLC
>Piranha Plant
>Joker
>Hero
>Banjo Kazooie
>Terry
>Min Min
>Pyra/Mytra
>Steve
>Sephiroth
>Kazuya
>Sora

I dunno, Ultimate has some cool dlc.

Lucina should've just been 2 of marths colors like how Hero is done. Chrom should've stayed a final smash.

It also has the worst psychics. Smash 3ds had better psyichs than it

>all they had to do was copy and paste that game and add some characters yet they fucked it all up
because the 3DS version existed, hindering the WiiU version with garbage alternatives.

>Min Min
>Smash 4
spotted the Guilty Queer fag

the games sold over 14 million dude

>Exclusive stages
>Transitioning stages was in the 5 all star ones plus in the Bounty hunter one near the end
>Kill only one specific character
>Use only one item
>Protect a character like Peach/Zelda
>Carry and protect an item
>Kill with an item only
And this is only 50 events.
WoL makes you play like 200 fucking matches that is "kill one guy that is slightly stronger, maybe one item spawns more but it's not neccesary to use it lol"
It gets boring 20 matches in, it's like classic but with the sticker gimmick.

what's even the point if most of them barely got any significant change?
>most people wanted Young Link to return on top of getting a huge make over
>maybe Young Link from Majora's Mask or just ALBW/Link's Awakening/Oracles Link
>comes back as some stand-in for the former Link
>"but bro, teh graphix XD"

shame the DLC had like 3-4 alright stages tourneyfags won't touch.

and someone found the "slingshot" almost a week after the release.
the state of OH NO BACK TO THE LAB AGAIN

>Rosalina
Was uneeded honestly and was the beginning of the Mario roster being overbloated than keeping who's actually needed in the roster.
>Bowser Jr.
Is a okay choice, but their moveset is garbage and should have been more inspired by Sunshine given the character.
>Palutena
Okay choice, but not like many people realistically wanted her in.
>Robin
Okay and actually sensible choice as a newcomer.
>Little Mac
Good choice, but their moveset forces players to camp which isn't fun at all.
>Greninja
Latest Pokémon shill character for the latest gen, shitty pick overall.
>Duck Hunt
May seem like a good pick, but it's a TERRIBLE pick when you realize we were supposed to get the protagonist of Murmamse Castle over Duck Hunt.
>Villager
Okay pick, although I doubt many people asked for him.
>Wii fit Trainer
Shitty WTF pick, literally nobody asked for them.
>Shulk
Okay pick, but they did the spoilers and representation of the character so poorly.
>Pacman
Decent pick, but could have gotten better alts.
>Megaman
Good pick overall.
>Miis
Great pick, but not being allowed to use them online is fucking bullshit.
>Dark Pit
Shitty pick, should have been a alt skin for Pit
>Dr Mario
This once makes sense, as people been asking for a return to melee style Mario.
>Lucina
Horrible pick when you realize how much of a hypocrite Sakurai was.
>"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WE CANNOT ADD CHROM IN BECAUSE HE WOULD BE A IKE CLONE"
>Adds Lucina in when she's literally a Marth clone
Overall not as Brawl newcomers, but still better than ultimate newcomers.

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Let's take a look, then
>Floaty puppeteer, annoying matchup & one of the most polarising characters in her debut, a bit better in Ultimate
>An okay bag of tricks that doesnt really get played much anyway because visual design is a little boring since they went for the toybox trickster part of Jr
>An extremely boring character that only had 4 good moves, broken custom moves that got nuked, still very boring in Ultimate, just presses Bair and does nothing.
>Slow swordsman with zoning/ledgetrapping moves. Combining boring & boring doesnt cancel the boring
>Extremely poorly designed character that's pretty much doomed to be a bad noobstomper until redesigned
>Actually a good character that feels somewhat unique
>Another zoner but probably the best designed one in recent memory, no overtuned normals despite being a zoner, plenty capable of keepaway or trap but all of his ressources have some sort of drawback to them that make them harder to just spam. Boring, but tolerable.
>Another zoner, notoriously cancer with customs on for his planking abilities,, now just kind of unremarkable.
>Yet another zoner, this one still planks to this day, Header at the ledge. Deep Breathing & Healing through moves could be cool concepts wasted on this character.
>Swordsman who cheats but has a slightly less instinctive kit than others on top of having to learn how to cheat with the Monados. Okay character.
>Another zoner, previously kind of a weird bag of tricks, now a bag of tricks with possibly better normals than your main.
>Oh look it's a zoner, throwing pellets until the opponent gives you what you want until you're in range for Metal Blade confirms. Whatever.
>2 clones whatever and they don't even have different mobility specs
I love Smash 4 newcomers.

Shit, I forgot Byleth

>melee did
no it didn't.

>it was the best game in all aspects
wrong

*Snake

it's all the same, just the fact 3DS had less lag than WiiU and Ultimate.

>Is a okay choice, but their moveset is garbage and should have been more inspired by Sunshine given the character.
oh fuck off, this is the first time Smash ever had a vehicle character and you wanted another faggot swinging his dildo stick again.

anybody saying Brawl or Ultimate are better doesn't even play the game or possibly a Meleetard who gets wowed by basic function bitches like Joker, Greninja, and Banjo.

we all do
even MKLeo did

The problem with Smash 4's FIRST PARTY newcomer lineup is that it was just so fucking reliant on what was new and hot back in early 2012 when Sakurai finalized the roster, literally Duck Hunt was the only Nintendo newcomer in that game whose inclusion wasn't based on a then recent 3DS or Wii game. Shit, fucking CORRIN was the only DLC Nintendo newcomer we got that game.

I got ESL
Bowser Jr. is pretty much the true exposure that made me believe Sakurai is fucking bias and retarded about anything.
He never used Clown Car with extra features like the claw, boxing gloves, and chainsaw in main Mario series until he appeared in Smash Wii U. If there’s any reason why he can’t put characters like Takamaru, Waluigi, Doomguy, Travis, Bomberman, and other based pick because “I don’t know the moveset I can come up with” or “We already got ‘X’ that does ‘Y’ moveset.”, then bring up Bowser Jr. and other fucking sword users like Byleth and Lucina argument and he fucking lost any argument. The only saving grace he could’ve said is “I don’t like this character.”
I was fucking pissed when Sora’s moveset feels like hybrid of Cloud and Robin, so it proves Sakurai is fucking biased about anything.

Lucina is a Marth echo, she is basically a bonus character like Daisy and Richter were.
Bowser Jr had a clown car, and that was enough to form a base moveset. You can add the extra flourishes like boxing gloves and contraptions because they fit the concept. With characters like Waluigi, they do not have a basis for making a unique moveset that stands out from the others.

maybe he was forced to include bowser jr by the higher ups and had to make up a moveset? I remember in the Steve video he remarked on how he was pestered by executives

>maybe he was forced to include bowser jr by the higher ups and had to make up a moveset? I
He literally said Bowser Jr. was on the verge of being cut.

I’d say I want more legacy nintendo characters but the vast majority of good ones are here

I can’t see anything exciting other than scrambling the pokemon for picks like gengar or something

>zelda
>peach
>bowser
>marth
>mewtwo
>ganondorf
vs
3rd parties and shillmons

autism

>He never used Clown Car with extra features like the claw, boxing gloves, and chainsaw in main Mario series
>"CREATIVE LIBERTIES BAD"

>“I don’t know the moveset I can come up with” or “We already got ‘X’ that does ‘Y’ moveset.”,
No, you got that from fucking rosterfaggots spewing detractive bullshit on other character; and honestly, you're not any better to a detractor.
In fact, he never made any world about any of the characters you brought up aside maybe Takamaru, He said something in the lines of:
>Which would happen first? A new entry or Takamaru in Smash? Neither are likely (Dang)

Smash 4's base newcomers were fucking awful. The only good ones were Mega Man, Pac Man and arguably Little Mac. All the good newcomers were DLC.

now try actually listing the other first parties characters
Ganondorf in Melee sucks and just a precursor to "le disrespekt midtier man"

Villager, Duck Hunt, Rosalina, Shulk and Palutena were good too
Little Mac is another example of not going back to failed pitches, yet they still do it.

Brawl covered all heavy ends. 4 added a few more to complete the picture with Mac, Jr, Duck Hunt, Villager, arguably Greninja, and re-adding Mewtwo. Megan Man and FF representation were the most important to get among third party additions. Ultimate got the last bit of necessary Nintendo reps with Inkling, Ridley, K. Rool, and additional AC representation. It also cleared the last important third party reps with Simon, Banjo, and Hero. Smash was basically over with Banjo and Hero, at that point everyone who should be in Smash was in Smash. Everyone else is just someone who could be in Smash.

>You wanted another faggot swinging his dildo stick again.
Unironically yes. There's so much fun potential with Shadow Mario and his paintbrush. I would have loved seeing him summon goop creatures that would go after players or actually paint the stage floor that would slowly damage players.
They could even do a nice detail where Mario fludd special could actually damage him.
But instead we got koopa kart shit which is boring as fuck and not very creative.

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>so focused on adding new and relevant characters
>omits Bandana Dee from any and all reference, despite Kirby's Return to Dreamland releasing a year before Sakurai made any roster choices
One of the biggest headscratchers of Smash 4 to this day. Granted, in retrospect I'm glad they didn't actually make him a fighter. Too bad everything else about Kirby in Smash is so inexcusable.

>rushdown bloat
Two of the best characters are Peach and Jigglypuff.

Yea Forums thinks Smash 4 has the best Roster because Ultimate has too much bloat

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Honestly, I think the worst thing about Bowser Jr getting into the Smash the way he is, is that it influenced how he appears in games afterwards. Like half of the games Bowser Jr is in post-Smash 4 has him surgically attached to the kart.

>Ganondorf in Melee sucks and just a precursor to "le disrespekt midtier man"
as opposed to complete garbage?

You can already do summon shit with a Mecha Koopa and terrain gimmick with the Ink wasn't "that" interesting with Inkling.
Mobs are such a boring as fuck idea for Smash, I can see why Dedede doesn't throw Waddle Dees/Waddle Doos anymore. It's better translated in a fucking musou where you're actually fighting a buncha of characters and defending shit.

You don't wanna do any fighting? Just get an Amiibo CPU to play with you, i guess.
>But instead we got koopa kart shit which is boring as fuck and not very creative.
yeah man, something that isn't throwing a fucking sword and fist is uncreative.
Let me fucking guess, you gravitate to Shitdow over Eggman and Tails (who at least have material to not be a Sonic variant) because you like seeing a shiny projectile.

t. got disrespected

all the Brawl characters had great presentation but ended up horribly on release.
Especially Pokemon Trainer

>generic Falcon clone moveset
or
>a puppeteer, basically a jedi, a heavy weapons specialist, a cat wrestler (who should be Falcondorf's stand-in at this rate), and a dog and duck who gets shot by metaphysical character and summong fucking stands
it's okay, maybe if OoT wasn't so shilled hard, Melee would have much of a generic to awful bloat selection of characters.

Melee, despite being the best in the series gameplay wise, doesn't have the best Roster of newcomers

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I actually shower, which is a rarity among Smash fans.
also Ganonniggers scurry fast as soon as throw a book or egg at them.

>Jigglypuff
only if Hungrybox is playing Melee
other than that, it's still Sheik, Spacies, and Morf

your schizo fanfic makes no sense because they still kept him a falcon clone in future games but made him worse each time

I miss Master/Crazy Orders so much
It made up the lack of Smash Run for something fun

It's kinda obvious how very little of a shit Sakurai gives about Bandana Dee.

Like you look at basically all the other never evers like Shovel Knight, Waluigi, Shantae, Krystal, Isaac, Dixie, Geno, etc all got assist trophies, Mii outfits and/or spirit battles. Meanwhile all Dee has ever gotten in Smash is just as an upgrade to the regular Waddle Dee spirit, he doesn't even have his own dedicated spirit fight.

Bandana Dee wouldn't solve any issues with Kirby anyways
nobody fucking learned from Banjo and Sora.
>big hype
>boring moveset
>lackluster content

>HURR DURR WE HAVE TO MAKE EVERY MOVESET HECKING THEMATICAL EVEN IF IT WOULDN'T WORK OR BE A FEASIBLE FIGHTING MOVESET!!!

where's the Geno and Krystal AT?
>Shovel Knight, Waluigi, Isaac, Dixie,
good, don't ever bother adding this whores.
especially Dixie, i can't believe we lived that period where people unironically thought the fucking echo fighter was "such a glaring omission"

OoT shilling is the reason why we never got the actual Ganon in Smash.
had people knew about Nintendo's "fear" of alienating old players before Melee, we made have had retaliated.

>OoT shilling is the reason why we never got the actual Ganon in Smash.
his moveset borrows literally nothing from oot though. he's a falcon clone because they had a spare spaceworld model of ganon and melee was on a tight time constraint. they kept him that way because he's still fun regardless.

>where's the Krystal AT?

Right fucking here?

Geno is also a spirit battle and a Mii outfit.

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>NOOOO BUT MY LE HECKING CLONE MOVESET IS LE KINO
>BUT MUH NICK BRAWL BOOGEYMAN IGNORING THE FACT IT'S BY WESTERN HACKS THAT MISS THE APPEAL OF OTHER SMASH GAMES AND IT'S MOVESET DESIGNS

How the actual fuck is Sora a hybrid of Cloud and Robin? The only thing he has in common with either of those is "uses fire and lightning magic" or "has a floating dash". None of Sora's moves are anything like Cloud's or Robin's.

lol’d

>his moveset borrows literally nothing from oot though
You missed the point
He gotten a ton of votes from that japanese Melee poll. Sakurai left a little detail that he "combined" all the votes of Ganon and Ganondorf into one total vote.
After that, he just remembered he had to add another popular character into the game at the last minute, so faggot Aonuma came in and told him he can take the Spaceworld model to whip up something servicably close.

If Nintendo wasn't pushing for fucking OoT, we made had their appearances from ALTTP along with Zelda. But nope, gotta add the stupid sandnigger in, (btw we also had the spare time to give a similar moveset to Mewtwo.)