I swear he responds to your inputs faster than your actual character does

You'll be able to beat him user!

From Soft is obviously trying to get players to think of boss fights in terms of "turns" with input reading being the method they use to punish you for acting out of turn, because obviously input reading poses no threat they're already in an animation. Whether you like this system or not it's clearly working exactly as intended.

Shitters are in this thread right now

>the game uses your assumptions and reflexes against you
Unironically why is that a bad thing?

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>the game being shit and poorly designed is intended
lol

not an argument, you have the reading comprehension of a baby and an ego made of glass
the point is that the boss input reads the microsecond you press a button
you can't refute this and parrot generic 'ez get gud' garbage

Never once have I seen 3 and 4 as part of the same move as 2, it's always one or the other.

I still believe in you user! Never give up, never surrender!

because it forces you to memorize instead of naturally reacting to the attack

>the point is that the boss input reads the microsecond you press a button
Yes, and?

Do you mean anticipate? I don't know how you can memorize something he'll do in response to what you do.
If it means you can use it against them for free hits, yeah that part is really cool. It makes you feel like you actually "know" combat as a character.

that's all, thanks

While not being the actual tutorial boss people call him that pretty often. You'll do fine user. These games can be brutal sometimes but they're all manageable if you keep your composure.

Ever heard of a faint? You know, the thing that uses your reflex against you?

Maybe this game isn't for you then. Keep looking for excuses that you're shit at the game.

It wasn't a bad thing back in Dark Souls and Bloodborne back when that kind of trick was the exception to the rule. The game set up your expectation with predictable attacks which require pretty much all the same roll timing and then threw in one or two strange moves that break those expectations only on the hardest bosses, or maybe one of those moves per boss. The problem with Elden Ring is these types of moves are more common than the normal moves, so you begin to expect the uncommon moves and not expect the normal moves, so when the boss does the normal moves you end up standing there and taking it to the face because you were expecting a delay. Basically the system is all backwards, it's supposed to be a norm is set up and then subverted only on rare occasions to catch you off guard but now the rare move with the subverted timing is the norm so when a move behaves normally and comes out at normal speeds it totally catches you off guard and not in a good way.

to be fair, no, elden ring isn't for anybody with any standards

Bosses in this game have two modes:
1. Sitting like a little bitch and slow walking to the sides for half an hour until you actually do something
2. Non-stop attacking
There's rarely an in-between.

Explain how it's poorly designed. As I explained this system is fully intended and working as it should. You might not like the way it works but that doesn't mean it's working poorly.

the boss input reads
your schizo garbage is completely off-topic

>interaction with boss ends, they run back to their side of the room
>alright, it's my turn, guess i can hea-
>the second you press A, they launch a ranged attack

All computer software input reads, its why you the player have to use inputs to communicate with it. This is how videogames work user.
If you want to talk about AI we can have a discussion about how any basic enemy would kill you without being touched in every fucking game every made unless the AI is throttled intentionally.
We can do that, that just ends with you crying the game is too hard for you, which is what you're doing already.

This

Margit's input reading is still very much in the realm of normal behaviour during a fight. Just wait till you see bosses who have add-on moves to their combos that only activate once you take the opportunity to punish them after a string of attacks lmao.

It's not inherently bad, but the game does not give you the tools to appropriately respond. Enemies can cancel animations, artificially extend combos, can stagger cancel but meanwhile tarnished feels sluggish. If sekiro had this level of input reading it would be infinitely more acceptable because Sekiro gives you the tools to respond adequately.

it's not really normal behavior for bosses to always be input reading you and smacking you with chip damage, no

I dont really have a problem with the delayed attacks, but some of them are very unnatural, like they took a normal swing animation and just extended the frames.
my point on the memorizing was that there are a few instances where the attack is delayed, then will actually attack a second later, but its way too fast or has no tell in which you can react, so you just have to memorize how long the delay is.

my complaint is when you never know when a combo ends. You can dodge a boss's 10 hit combo that you see a million times, and then when you decide to go for an attack after the 10th hit, the boss will do a "part 2" of the combo that they would have never done before if you didnt attack.
its like the game punishes you for playing aggressively and taking risks, you're only reward for perfectly dodging that long combo attack is a measly poke before the boss pulls an extreme fast hit , or jumps to the other side of the arena

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the shitposting about difficulty aren't relevant to the discussion, OP and most in the thread is talking about the quality of the input reading and the lack of mask to maintain immersion

all of you 'get good' retards come off as incredibly insecure/projecting, desperate to shit your unwarranted takes into any mildly adjacent discussion you possibly can

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>It's not inherently bad, but the game does not give you the tools to appropriately respond. Enemies can cancel animations, artificially extend combos, can stagger cancel but meanwhile tarnished feels sluggish.
I had bloodhound step on my guy for like 80% of the game. I also have a brain instead of a script, the bosses didn't stand a chance against me after the normal practice every game has.

All of the bosses have abilities that input read on frame 1 which is just tacky imo. Im fine with the boss being a cheating cunt for the sake of difficulty but being forced to trade damage every time i attack is lame.

I don't know what you mean by unnatural, its just a delayed attack like most action games have.
The delay is never "too fast" its always the swing, just delayed. If you can't dodge it you weren't going to dodge it when it wasn't delayed... unless you memorized the fight. The delays make it so you can't memorize the fight, you have to know the fight and execute it well in action.
You're complaints are you think like a cowardly woman in your default mode and the game is now too fast and too punishing for your tastes, you only wanted the illusion of a challenge.
These games filter tons of people dude, its okay they aren't games for everyone even though this one sold like hotcakes. The market is expanding but not everyone can hang with the constant evolutions.

>trying Hoarah Loux this evening
>run into his range a couple of times trying to bait an axe swing
>come on
>do something, you gigantic faggot
>...
>fine
>jump L2, he does his overhead the second my feet leave the ground
You can't play aggressively in ER because the AI WILL fuck you for it.

They are trying to, but they don't get that all video games are reading your inputs at all times.
It sounds like an idea made up by young people that don't understand that videogames are software or how they function.

Which game sets the standard for "normal behaviour"?

yup, what's funny is when they don't input read you and face tank like 3-4 hits while crabwalking. Braindead AI

In sekiro, you were on the other side of this problem

Its got the shazamtranny stank to it for sure.

>add-on moves to their combos that only activate once you take the opportunity to punish them after a string of attacks
Not fond of this, it encourages you to take only the safest of openings and only do one or two attacks, artificially extending the fights.

Is there any way to make AI react to the player without input reading other than some Image recognition bullshit? I feel that at most you could add delay and additional checks to limit it.

Every second you aren't attacking them by choice is you extending the fight artificially. Your argument doesn't really stand up.

>a thing happened once
>omg it happens all the time
It was timing, i've done multiple raw jump attacks without being punished and i have done multiple raw jump attacks and was punished, what the fuck do you want? Mindlessly charge at the boss and be safe 100% of the time? Being aggressive means putting yourself in a high risk high reward situation and there's a difference between being aggressive and reckless.

He's fast
but not as fast as me

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>I had bloodhound step on my guy for like 80% of the game
Now what about all the other players who would like to use something other than BHS?

blatant passive-reactive input reading and rena-wide shockwaves, yet people still praise godfrey as one of the best and most 'honest' fights in the entire game while he cancels his own stagger/recovery animations right under their nose

bosses really shouldn't react to the player at all outside of the distance to the boss (running at the player) what's funny is even this barebones example of AI isn't flawless in the game

>I don't know what you mean by unnatural, its just a delayed attack like most action games have.
something like when a boss jumps in the air and stays still for a second, it's unnatural. and again, I'm taking about the actual attack being too fast when it actually comes out, though as i mentioned that's only for a few instances.
>The delays make it so you can't memorize the fight, you have to know the fight and execute it well in action.
i disagree, the delayed attacks are an exact reason to memorize an attack, because makes it easier to simply memorize that the axe will swing down in 2 seconds, rather than reacting to the axe swinging down.
I dont even know where you're going with the last point there, but if you're saying that i dont like the design of the bosses in this game then you're correct, i do not. They feel like a slog to go through and never did i feel satisfied after beating a boss. My biggest grievance being with Malekith, half that fucking fight is just chasing that fucker down because he wont stay still for more than 1 second

BHS also makes you almost effectively invincible, being almost entirely I frames with ridiculous movement and low as fuck cost, you aren't especially skilled or anything.

>most 'honest' fights
He's an honest fight by ER standards.

No. The only option is to limit their own actions with your own programming so the player thinks they aren't being input read. Every boss you've beaten in every game has been throttled so you'll beat it at a particular skill/stat level. It has to be this way, they are code with no agency.
You meanwhile have unbounded agency. Unbounded user, to the point that (((emergent gameplay))) is its own topic. The tactics you can deploy are so varied the program cannot ever stand a chance when throttled.
Conversely all you're agency and tactics mean nothing with an unthrottled AI. It will beat you effortlessly.

Having to put up a wiki and analyze frame data so you know if an attack is safe to dodge like you're playing a fighting game is fucking gay.

He is pretty honest compared to the draconic tree sentinel and his instakill "fuck you" lightning.

no it happens a lot of times. Noble Apostle and Melanie are notorious for it.
So many times I've tried to bait waterfowl out of her because i know she's going to do it, and she literally does nothing until you do an attack that reaches her or heal

That's because he DOES LMAO PREPARE TO DIE LEL!

they can react based on the distance between you which is something they also do. Instead of raw input reading they could also measure the location and trajectory of hitboxes and hurtboxes to react based on those factors, but that's a lot more effort.

>You can't play aggressively in ER because the AI WILL fuck you for it.
You can and should play aggressively in Elden RIng. It's just that the game wants to force you into spirit summons because From wants to replace "difficult but fair" with "win by any means necessary" which fucks over any player who doesn't want to use unfun bullshit.

Then they made a choice. If they didn't know it existed that is up to them. If they knew and didn't want to use it they made a choice. Their opinion should be weighed with that choice involved. They weren't "forced" into slow movement, they chose to have it.
I don't really care about the made up rules the troony types are trying to force onto people. We never played like that. A decade ago we were killing the dragon on the bridge with thousands of arrows. You do what you want to win.