How do we fix WRPG's?

By not playing 90's garbage

By not playing the worst ones (aka shitty janky CRPGs people pretend to like).
Not really.

Attached: 1547227246038.webm (853x480, 2.98M)

only good game on that list is baldur's gate

Tell devs that it's OK to not be isometric.
Like shit, I enjoy isometric but it's like all there is.

Make Gothic-style Action RPGs.

Infinity Engine games are the only good rpgs in existence.

Devs should just stop making shitty wannabe action games and do party based rts combat again.

Get rid of the gay isometric shit for starters. There's a reason people praise Kotor, Witcher 3 and New Vegas but don't give a shit about Pillars of Eternity or Icewind Dale.

>There's a reason people praise Kotor, Witcher 3 and New Vegas but don't give a shit about Pillars of Eternity or Icewind Dale.
Yea, because they pander to console tards and complete dumbfucks. Witcher 3 is not even an rpg, it's an interactive movie.

Witcher 2 also got very high praise and it wasn't isometric either.

looks way better than runescape.

fuck runescape

Who the fuck cares what is popular? Majority of gaymerz are legit retarded.

Disallow europeans from making them. Their inhumanly stupid brains just can't understand what good combat is supposed to feel like. It doesn't have to be complex, it just has to fucking function well. Eurojank isn't a meme.

I'm surprised people haven't copied the elderscrolls and fallout 3+ formula but actually made it good instead of some shallow empty shitheap for normies.

Is there some kind of incels rise up uplifting message in FO:NV? literally the entirety of Yea Forums sucks its dick forever

Stop making games that are just DnD for people without friends or imagination for one.

Ok. Well Witcher 2 was also very good without being isometric. So there's that.

It's the only game that met Fallout's potential

>genre can just be a slog or a pseudo action game with more icons on screen
We need to start over.

Yep, legion is basically about it.

>Gothic 2
>Not 1
Fuck off, retard.

You know remember the QTEs

BETRAAAAYAL

Fucking this.

What game is in the OP? Looks amazing.

First by defining what makes a game an RPG

Good question. There are tons of shitty WRPGs that most people just ignores because nobody gives a shit about them and they're fundamentally so uninteresting there there's no point in focusing on them when there already exist games that do things right and give the player unparalleled freedom both in and out of combat. WRPGs could learn from JRPGs with regard to how to present themselves better and rely less on the player being a blank state, and they could have far more intersting end games, but the best WRPGs are trying to be the best they can be at what they are good at and have succeeded at this to a decent extent.

You need to understand though that part of the reason why people bash JRPGs so much more is that the specific problems they have are more embarrassingly easy to fix, and yet the devs just don't bother. Almost no JRPG dev seems to have the ambition to try to make their games significantly more tactical.

>W
When you're talking about non-weeb shit you can just write RPG.

This. If Runescape played like this, I'd play it.

I agree, the rest are great games.

We've had Tyranny release a couple of years back and it belongs straight up between Arcanum and Planescape Torment in terms of quality and unique setting.

Sure it's a short experience but quality is more important than quantity.

>same shit but wish flashy effects and this stupid juggling
Way to prove a point.

Dude, wailing on an enemy that can't fight back is barely any more interesting.

Turn based battles or just stop making them and leave it to Bethesda

jesus christ

It has both pseudo-intellectual fascist doctrine. As well as literal ISIS level incel shit where they enslave all women for sex slaves etc.

However the true reason why it's loved is because it's one of the only games that actually get better the more you replay it. So it has the reverse effect of most games where it gets more loved over time rather than with Fallout 3 where the first time it's high quality but on repeated playthroughs you'll realize how shitty it actually is.

This is why casual communities like Reddit still prefer Fallout 3 over new vegas. Because they never replay games and form their entire view on their single 20 hour playthrough.

This is literally slowed down a bit dark souls. I thought you weebs loved stuff like this?

moving to real time combat was a mistake, rpg's fundamentally work best when based in numbers. if the only thing that matters is whether you can aim, it's not a fucking rpg. every enemy should have defenses like slash/crush/pierce etc, every weapon have damage types too, accuracy%, crit% etc. witcher 3 is a shit fucking game because you just put whatever sword on that has the biggest number at the top and then spam attack,dodge,attack,dodge forever. I WANT TO STAND THERE ATTACKING A LEVEL 1 ENEMY AND MISS 8 TIMES BECAUSE I HAVE LOW STATS

What's wrong? Game looks fun.

you sure showed us with that flashy pinata beatdown

I don't see what's wrong, Divinity Original Sin was pretty good, just played Shadowrun Dragonfall and it was alright.I wish they made it a little more elaborate. I had a lot of fun times with Legend of Grimrock, not sure how much people consider them RPGs though.

Honestly if bethesda just hired better writers and programmers they would BTFO literally everything else but fame made them boring so that's never gonna happen.

Leave it to Outer Worlds to save them.

lol I have the exact opposite opinion about NV and F3. On first playthrough of NV you get immersed in the quality story/dialogues/quests, on the next ones you realize how its one huge theme park with not much to do in it and this feel of "theme park" removes immersion for me. As for F3, I treat it like a roguelike with high difficulty and find it easier to immerse myself every time because the map isn't as defined by its "amusement rides" like NV but has a rather organic feel. Maybe its because exploring is more interesting than F3's rides so you are forced to use your creativity. I also prefer its atmosphere and look for the survivalism aspect.

>leave it to bethesda
lmao user, they have the worst combat system, the most dull magic system (just recolor my spells up for all elements), and the shittiest arrow physics for anything real time

This is just one dude showing off though, not unlike DMC combo videos. It requires great timing and skill to pull off.
See above, most tougher enemies have counter artes or will use OL if you rely too much on combo chains.
Point is that there's no excuse for shitty janky gameplay in Action RPGs when tons of other games have fulfilled their potential like KH2FM, Ys, Dark Souls, Dragon's Dogma, Monster Hunter and so on. Unlike whatever that shit in OPs webm is and other trash like Morrowind.

Attached: 1518997496063.png (485x522, 520K)

The games you listed are not RPGs.

WRPGs took heavy damage from DnD where everything is connected to dice rolls and numbers

Attached: squint_disgustwood.jpg (591x321, 77K)

>WRPGs could learn from JRPGs with regard to how to present themselves better
Fuck no, we all know JRPG is inferior to WRPG

Are the Witcher games and Mass Effect games not RPGs now as well?

I was one of the 4 people on Yea Forums who liked Tyranny, but even so, I would hardly put it in the same category as MotB and Arcanum

I never played F3 but tried New Vegas recently for the first time, I still feel the stench of Bethesda in this Obsidian game, I'm not really a fan of their open world formula, the samey looking caves, world with some shit spread around, how the crafting feels unintuitive, for example the game never specifies what exactly can be used for crafting, so you just end up having to carry half a ton of garbage. I also don't feel the progression in getting better skilled with guns, for example I don't get more accurate with a 100 skill in guns, it just makes the gameto not have the weird reload issues that you gety when you use an item above the requirements. Now in Deus Ex, the difference between Untrained and Master for a weapon is absolutely massive.

The world of NV does feel quite static, no roaming bands or anything of the sort, which is also a Bethesda flaw in all their games. It's nice that they allow many endings and how they wrap it up, but it just isn't that well done.

And then for some reason they removed the turn based part of DnD while keeping everything else.

AND VOICE ACTORS. please for the love of god i wish game devs would stop hiring like 6 fucking actors, there must be HUNDREDS of wannabe voice actors lining up to take a minimum wage job at bethesda to get into a TES game. i would so much prefer each guard/npc having their own voice, even if the 'acting' wasn't amazing, rather than hearing that one fucking guy that does every guard in skyrim AND the male protagonist in dishonoured 2 which i lmao'd out of immediately purely because of his voice and played as the girl instead

i haven't played tabletop myself only baldur's gate etc, isn't dnd not really turn based? like the rounds system means you might not be able to act for a while after casting a big spell etc, idk how that stuff works in tabletop

No, in DnD every round each player and npc and enemy gets an attack/action+move and they do them in the order determined by initiative.

Witcher 3 is not a RPG.

DnD is strictly turnbased
To the point when extreme muhDnD autists shit on IE games because of rtwp

Go play MMOs, dumbass. They are the multiplayer grindy quest games you always wanted.

The open world part with "repetitive" content is what I play F3 for. Granted some mods make it better and part of the fun is the challenge when you ramp up the difficulty as well as your slow sense of progression. Plus all the little creative shit you can do in your approach to a dangerous situation.

Basically playing it like a Stalker. I knew a literal Chad who wasnt into rpgs but only played F3 like this (not really caring about quests or wtv).

I didn't play NV for the same reason, it has a better main story and quests but I wouldn't really care to redo them on a second playthrough. But when playing it like I would F3, I find it way more boring and the atmosphere doesn't make it as good.

There are WRPGs that give you choice and a player character with a personality, see Deus Ex. Now JRPGs usually have no choice and at best some obnoxious player character.

ah k so cyberpunk 2020 is pretty similar to dnd then? i watched one playthrough of that and the combat was pretty funny, lots of blown off limbs

Your post doesn't even make any sense. RPGs are not action games.

but real time with pause is garbage, either make the game turn based with some strategy involved, a good turn based system or quit trying to make it a pretend action game that just sucks

ultima 9

Correct. nips and weebs are so corrupted by braindead """""action"""" JRPG they forget what an RPG really is.

A real wRPG lets you create your own character with minimal presets.

interesting!

the chaos of 3 enemy mages all firing off spells at once while the fighters charge in is one of the coolest things about bg to me

ME is an action adventure scifi in my estimation, even though you do make choices, it's barely an rpg if at all

Ah right you're one of those people that just abhor having to do anything other than click on a couple of menus. I'm sorry about your slow brain.
Text adventures and visual novels might be more up your speed. They usually offer a lot more choice and role playing than your average CRPG.

hows temple of elemental evil though

RPG combat kino with Co8 mod.

You completely misunderstood that post.
Instead of adapting a tabletop system that's meant to me played in a group to shitty singleplayer games they should make systems that are made with singleplayer computer games in mind from the very start. As long as WRPGs anchor themselves down to their tabletop heritage they will stay shit.

Nobody understands what you are saying. You are not able to provide any examples.

Depends. Do you want to go back to D&D rules like Baldur's gate, or go for RPGs taking the more action route?

By making them more like Ultima 5

Combat after combat after combat. I had a good time with it. Due to some glitch my dwarf polearm fighter got crit every other attack (crits had special animation, fighters with polearms do a silly spinning attack).

Turn is 6 seconds in these dndbased crpgs, you just don't have pauses between turns.

How do we fix Spoony?

lol jk, he's fucked forever

Attached: NO FUCKIN' WAY!.png (719x538, 568K)

But STALKER, despite not being a RPG, succeeds at creating a much more immersive world. The roaming bands of people from different factions, sometimes fighting each other, gives it a real world feeling to it. People going around doing stuff. You have people congregating around campfires playing with a guitar and stuff. All those little things add some humanity to the game, meanwhile NV, and I'll add all Bethesda games, feel like robotic garbage. NPCs just standing around doing nothing, the world is just a bunch of wolves or whatever enemy spread around and nothing happening outside of you doing stuff. The element of discovery exists in STALKER but it certainly doesn't in NV/Bethesda, the caves not only look alike, but they're predictable and boring, face some enemies, then find some loot that is sceptims a torch or maybe it's pre-war money in NV and bottle caps. It's a formula.

Meanwhile in STALKER you have some pretty fucked monsters that do all kinds of crazy shit, and the caches you find can be in all kinds of places, instead of the predictable body in cave or chest, that makes the exploration of NV/Bethshit extremely repetitive, robotic, formulaic. Also the art style of NV is cancerous with the piss filter, and STALKER looks way better with colors other than yellow being allowed to exist. I'd also say the lighting in STALKER SoC really enhances the game, exploring caves and labs can be very dangerous, since you know there are enemies that can mindfuck you in a matter of seconds, meanwhile in NV you have the VATS system that can auto shoot things for you, almost feeling like a cheating on demand button, then you have autostimpacks and whatnot, there's really not much of a feeling of threat in NV.

Nigger people in this very thread are still jerking off infinity engine games and their spiritual successors. Baldur's gate is straight up ADnD.
I'm saying WRPGs should move away from that shit.

This. I want a Gothic-style RPG with character creation, extreme gore, Euphoria engine and mostly physics-based combat.

Attached: 1551476108469.webm (600x600, 2.78M)

Attached: CRPG combat.webm (1280x720, 1.51M)

Time to fuck off back to rêddit, zoomer.

You are not saying what should be done, you are saying what shouldn't be done.

>fighters with polearms do a silly spinning attack).
kinda want to play it now

The most basic thing we need to fix is gameplay.

Modernize the games all you want, the problem is the RPGs don't challenge the characters, or you as a player to figure out the quests anymore.

Since Oblivion, every fucking RPG has to be this linear follow the dot, tick the box, ad nauseum quests with polarizing writing where you're either a good guy, or an asshole who gets the job done (See: Fallout 3, Mass Effect, ect)

You're no longer given a quest, a singlular objective, and then have an entire world to interact with and explore to figure out how the fuck you're supposed to complete said objective and move the story forward, even more so you're always the chosen one or the only one who can get the job done, the world isn't an unfolding story that you're participating in anymore, but rather you are the story, and your yes, yes, and angry yes responses doesn't make it engaging at all.

This is why I really enjoy Divinity Original Sin, the game is cringy at times, but at least it gives me the freedom to fuck off and figure my way through the game's story, rather then giving me a bunch of dots on a compass or map to follow for 4 hours before the game is pretty much overwith.

Attached: bongocat.gif (270x165, 19K)

Dark souls is the zoomercore, what are you talking about?

...

Gothic is barely a RPG, you can max out so many things, and after a while you just start one shotting everything with your melee. Also there's barely any side content other than the few quests you can do in act 1, then the game becomes just do the mainquest for the other 5 acts, pretty much.

Thanks user

>they should make systems that are made with singleplayer computer games in mind from the very start
Gothic is a good example. Janky of course, but a good step in the right direction.

Devs should just try to be creative and do whatever they want, making them more like X for the sake of it isn't gonna improve variety and make gameplay more interesting in concept or execution, most of the choices in RPG development have been about convenience but there's no need for that anymore.

wtf mods

GIANT ENEMY CRAB
HIT ITS WEAK SPOTS FOR MASSIVE DAMAGE

That's why a new ideal Gothic would have more ways to solve quests, more ways to build your character up. Ideally all factions would have a different ending.

Looks like Heroes of Might and Magic III: Horn of the Abyss

Example quests?

Fallout 1 and 2's main quests
>inb4 you can just...
Doing those quests blind requires you to go around asking for help, directions, where the fuck you can find a Water Chip, GECK, where the mutants might be hiding out, ect.

what about Divinity: Original Sin?

are risen 2 and 3 good?

Attached: Comfy_guy.jpg (197x190, 29K)

The first Gothic's prison colony setting is by far supperior than the one in 2.

The problem is, there are 2 categories of gamers. Total geeks who like games as an absolutely new medium and want something new be done with it and another, more massive group that just like nice experiences, be it books, movies, theme park rides, etc. They don't care about new ways you can have fun with computers.
Peak geek gaming was from the middle of the 90's to the middle of the 00's. After that gaming started to be much more mainstream, culminating with the release of Skyrim, which was bought and played by eberyone, their mom and her dog. And it was a perfect experience where you had to perform a series of shallow meaningless movements to get another pice of exposition.
This is a perfect formula which was discovered by japanese corporations: just have a basic story with quirky, enjoyable characters and pace it with a simple gameplay loop so that player may feel that he is doing. something and progressing(and also to pad you 2-3 hour movie to 40+ hours length).
And then everyone got a whiff of it. Why experiment with mechanics and game engines? Why spend time perfecting game and level design? Just hire couple of writing rejects, bunch of failed animators and have players churn through meaningless, pointless blocks of gameplay to get to the next bit of exposition. This way you can constraint players action however you like and you don't have to think about how players actions will affect the world around them. Not the perfect way of making games from a standpoint of someone who wants to do interesting shit and fun complex games, but from a standpoint of a CEO who needs to make profit it's perfect. Take any recent game, WRPG, JRPG, Shooter, whatever and strip all cutscenes from it, look only at gameplay bits where you actually do something and not just walking around listening through dialogue. Will this game be still as fun is memorable?
People still do this new experimental stuff, including crpgs, it's just much more smaller and now falls more into the indie.

If I wanted to play an action game I would've played DMC. Next you're going to compare Nier Automata to Dragon Age 1.

The prison colony is one of the most ingenious video game settings ever, Gothic 2 had no way of living up to that though it could at least have tried.

Why?

Especially 2. It has balancing and tone issues, but outside the intro bit, couple of mid game interactions that are required and the oil rig stretch there is no set story. Your character creates his own story from bits and pieces around the wasteland. Sure there's a designed path for new players, but even there are a lot of choices and intertwining narratives. And it's actually fun on several playthroughs, because you can roleplay it up and make a different story each time. Dumb faggot with a hammer just going around and hammering everything that moves? Stealthy faggot that hates mutants and ghouls? Diplomatic type that just wants to explore all of the wasteland? A mighty warrior that had a dream about magic armor that will aid him and helping all people of the wastes, which is kept in a secret military base, where attack on his tribe came from, so he goes directly there, grabs it and becomes the true hero of the wasteland? Fuck yeah, you can do anything and much more. One of a few games that i played about 30 times, probably and replay each year. Still each time is a bit different.

see
It's a perfect example of a movie padded with something to do so you would feel that you do something. It's a fun experience, nothing wrong with liking it it's just it's basically a book or a movie in a slightly different form.

I agree with you. However I feel like the quality of videogames are slowly rising again. With the absolute bottom being ~2008-2016 and it slowly rising again.

Especially on PC they are still trying to innovate and you have more and more simulation experiences that are selling really well again. Even the mainstream is starting to become interested in experimental games again. We went from Minecraft "crafting" games to MOBA to Hero shooters to battle royale in a very short time. These are all new concepts that broke into the mainstream.

In comparison in 2008-2016 it was just purely focused on brown corridor shooters while the Japanese market died off nearly completely which is now making a comeback again.

We are also slowly starting to see the old publisher model die as indies (with the exception of fortnite) tend to be the breakthrough companies that pioneer these new genres.

If anything I feel like we are entering a new golden age for "total geek" videogames where something new gets done all the time.

Attached: 1497609184270.jpg (1869x957, 271K)

Because your personal human skills like timing and twitch reflexes determine the outcome of battle.
Because your choice in dialogue is reduced to black and white, no matter what you do.

In an rpg (role playing game) the focus is on the character, not you. Your character has never held a sword, so he misses a lot. Does your character have low intelligence or charisma? Well less and different options in dialogue for you then.

Get it?

Attached: 1551692455428.jpg (590x700, 40K)

Explain the advent of "gameplay-centric" games like minecraft, souls series, battle royale then? All of these have mass appeal and don't focus on story but instead on (new, or perfected) gameplay mechanics.

I think the problem is that people who make games don't look into the more out there stuff, it would be nice to have both mainstream/casual and more niche and technically involved games if the people behind the most mainstream products took the good stuff out of the niche and gave it a presentation anyone could enjoy but that isn't what happens in the west at least, at all, japs tend to be more willing to implement stuff just because they played it in some other game they found cool since a small studio that doesn't fall in doujin category can have an influence in their country, think of how the more complicated fighting games and the licensed anime shit can coexist, how horror games made a massive impact in the 5th gen despite being pretty experimental thanks to RE appealing to people already into them and also being simple enough for casual players, that's what the west needs more of.

>no age of decadence

i really doubt it

you see
games from the era mentioned by the user you replied to werent made by geeks
they were made by nerds
those were the games made by nerds for other nerds. and not only nerds from computer sciences area also writers etc. were more nerdy like comapred to your typical overweight female lead wirter with pink hair
or people who were into role-play or tabletop games etc.
nowadays the the geeks are making games for other geeks
geeks only care about the cool effect
they just care about fun in the context of
>look at this game its fun
and for nerd "fun" is unironically a buzzword
nerd gets fun from designing complexed systems or, in the case of wirter nerd, complexed worlds, characters etc. the best example fo nerd wirter would be Pacotti who written deus ex.
and the nerds who enjoy these games get the
>woah thats cool and fun
feeling from experiencing, understanding and mastering mechanics of the game

is it just me or does this look awesome

>In an rpg (role playing game) the focus is on the character, not you. Your character has never held a sword, so he misses a lot. Does your character have low intelligence or charisma? Well less and different options in dialogue for you then.

By your definition in a true rpg your input should end after character creation and the rest of the game should play itself. Player intelligence is just as much of a skill as timing and human reflexes.

Which version of Ultima 7 should I start with?

tibia

I'm not a br.

The game is a series of puzzles and your character has some, but not all peices to finish all the puzzles, which leads you to have a unique play through depending on your character.

A good DM in a game of D&D or any tabletop RPG will allow for players to explore different avenues to solve a problem, hindering them with different checks that they can overcome by having the right stats or spells, but won't let you say, bust down a metal door thats in your way because your fighter character doesn't have enough strength to do so, where an enraged barbarian with a bulls strength potion might.

This is what makes RPGs fun, and what makes them have replay value.

I didn't know the difference between "nerd" and "geek" because English isn't my native language.

What I meant is that games are slowly returning to being about completely new gameplay mechanics that were never done before and they get the mass appeal. Nobody gives a shit about call of duty or battlefield anymore. Singleplayer "story driven" games get sold less and less every year. More and more focus is on new gameplay.

And I say this as someone that enjoys singleplayer games mostly for the story that's what I liked the most in games like orcarina of time on the console or baldurs gate on the PC. But I notice that others and the industry as a whole actually does.

My normalfag nephew who is 15 year old only plays fortnite and other gameplay centric games and makes fun of open world singleplayer games or "movie" games. Saying that they are for old people and that only gameplay is important.

>Ah right you're one of those people that just abhor having to do anything other than click on a couple of menus.
oh the irony, Nobody wants a fucking simplistic menu gameplay with overly long cinematic animation as an RPG.

Baldur's gate is probably the worst of those listed. Still a great game.

>pathfinder
gross

>By your definition in a true rpg your input should end after character creation and the rest of the game should play itself

If it was this except for important character decisions where I get to roleplay what the character will do (because the computer can't know for certain how I designed the character in my head) It would be my favorite game of all time.

This is what CRPGs are to me. Me creating a character and giving life to this character through this new universe of the game. I don't give a shit about the combat, I'd play combat centric games if I cared about that. I care about the roleplaying and choice & consequences that actually involve roleplay.

but WRPGs spawned from DnD you fucking weeb retard

>New Basedgas
>not fallout 3
/vg/ is for reddit not Yea Forums

But this is not about tabletop rpgs, and there is no DM.

Does it make any sense that my 20 INT wizard is trying to poke eyes out with pebbles? Does it any sense that my 1 INT barbarian walks around in carefully selected equipment and uses intelligent tactics in combat?

You can't arbitrarily decide that player skills have no place in rpgs in one case, but allow it in other equally nonsensical ones.

The first webm I posted require more precise timing, frame knowledge and input memorization than every menu based RPG though, and it's far from being the best Action RPG out there.

Pretty good.

what's a paladin?

Minecraft as it's played by most people is a sandbox, where you do stuff the way you want and define your own goals. And it's fucking great that it happened and landed so perfectly so it became popular. Battle royale is not a really good example. It's a simple game mode on top of a multiplayer shooter mechanic that doesn't change much and is always popular, because it's simple fun in short sessions. Yet as a game mode it's also pretty shitty, because while skill is important, for your average player a lot will boil down to luck: how good is you landing spot, how good is equipment there, who dropped near you, did you noticed this guy before he noticed you, how the wall is moving, and couple of more parameters you don't have much control over. If you want to test skills and understanding of mechanics the only true way is still a 1v1 duel with equal starting conditions, but this type of play isn't really popular outside of a small competitive cycle. Souls is a weird one. It has nice world design and decent mechanics(but not the best, or hardest out there) but I think that most of it's popularity comes from a meme that it's a "ZOMG A HARDEST GAME EVER I GAVE IT A TRY BUT COULDNT FACEROLL THE FIRST AREA BUT ITS EPIC I WATCHED THE STREAMS". Not a lot of people actually played it extensively or finished it.
Anyway, aside from minecraft there's no real innovation here, and even minecraft wasn't the first game to have mining and free crafting. Notch was just very lucky. Still will be great to have more games like that or souls.

is fortnite zoomers doom?

>giving life to this character through this new universe of the game
I agree, people seriously underestimate the power of world building.

I keep replaying it hoping that one of these days I'll find a hidden questline that lets me become Motor Runner's sex slave, but it never happens and it breaks my heart.

Attached: motorrunner.jpg (500x453, 70K)

This

>only played around 50% of these
>would like to play the rest
>moved away from PC gaming in the meantime and unwilling to sit in front of a monitor with a M+K for the duration of a WRPG
feels bad

In an rpg you are presented with a CHANCE to roleplay as someone you are not. Yes, you can carefully implement tactics and gear, but should you? Would that retard even know how to put on a helmet?

But you have a point. Maybe we need a game that restricts inventory management in accordance to your intelligence.

choiceofgames.com/
?

>imagine your barbarian bringing his backpack to the mage
>the mage sorts out the clusterfuck with his 20 int
>the barbar has now a neatly sorted backpack that his -1 int cant comprehend or even replicate

Unironically would play this

I know of them. I really liked choice of robots.

Underrated post.

I think people who don't like a certain genre should just not play games in that genre instead of trying to fix the genre itself

is this a game?

Number one reason above all else, you need developers/staff who believe in the genre. Their primary mindset has to be Games>Money. If they're in it for the money, they're just going to crank out the most homogenized experience for the quickest turn of profit. If they dont love videogames, its doomed from the start.

More rules
-Do not shove in Politics. Whether it is left, right, or center. Western games have a issue with this for some reason.

-Do not let SJW's touch them, not for their politics, but because they actually don't have much talent as developers, and are extremely lazy/entitled. This is the primary reason why most of them have sucked since the mid 2000's. you need some old cursing neckbeards designing your games.

-Do something fucking original. Stop copying the tried and true and fucking go out and invent and create. Take a risk, and tell your publisher to eat a dick if they want the same ol same ol. If they tell you you're fired, leave and crowd fund your game and actually make it and don't be a piece of shit who runs with the money and delivers a half game because money was the only reason you were making it in the first place.

>people do this in tales games
>I just mash attack and arts buttons
it just werks

Why is it that every wrpg fans recommend these same, already 20 year old games but in jrpg threads you always get something new every year?
Are wrpgs in THAT bad state or people are so closed minded on new titles?

Pretty much, unless you're one of those that caved into Skyrim modding.

Attached: sad.png (409x357, 226K)

>I'm surprised people haven't copied the elderscrolls and fallout 3+ formula but actually made it good instead of some shallow empty shitheap for normies.
Me too. You'd think that would be an obvious idea.

>Are wrpgs in THAT bad state or people
yes

>Peak geek gaming was from the middle of the 90's to the middle of the 00's. After that gaming started to be much more mainstream

This is peak revisionism. Dumbed down 'cinematic but not actually' FPS were the most critically acclaimed games in the mid 00s, while serious indie gaming massively blew up only in the later part of that decade. Gaming has only improved since the final years of the previous decade

Cool. Fortnite will save us all.

quality > quantity is such a shit concept. literally fucking anything can be made enjoyable if you dont have to endure it for long or if it doesnt have to stay enjoyable for long.

tyranny was a good game that abruptly ended right when it should have only been hitting its halfway point.

man ultima 9 was some ass
>dues ex
>ss2
>vtmb
what are you doing nigga?
gothic is it's own thing too
>infinity engine
never played an rpg made before 1997 huh?

Gaming went to shit after 2006/7, before that every potentialy cancerous thing was brand new and there were good vidya coming out up until the mid 2000s. Deus Ex is from 2000, for fucks sake.

SS2 and Morrowind are overrated, Morrowind more than anything ever, probably. It was good when it came out but the perception of it has changed, it's as empty as most of Bethesda's dogshit games.

>the game never specifies what exactly can be used for crafting
You can see the recipes for everything at the crafting stations, even if your skills aren't high enough to make them, and the starting town has one of each crafting station.

Actually, I think RPGs can be better with no voice acting at all, because then it's much easier to include a ton of choices.

wrpgs aren't produced on a conveyor belt like jrpgs. there's been a resurgence this decade, but you're lucky if you get one decent one a year. meanwhile you have jrpgs of every caliber from bargain bin trash to high budget games multiple times a year

Is Kenshi wrpg?

Is Kenshi really connected to Battle Realms or did Sseth meme me? Cause I really liked Battle Realms.

>This is why I really enjoy Divinity Original Sin
But D:OS gives you dots on a map like everything else, the only thing it does a tiny bit differently from most of those games is having quest puzzles that are not immediately self evident crap for 3 years old, but passable crap for 6 years old.
It's also just as incredibly broken as every other WRPG out there, the only thing that makes it actually bearable and enjoyable is that it uses passable turn based combat instead of the most half assed action "combat" possible or the affront that is RTwP, and that it's not mechanically based on D&D like 99% of fantasy WRPGs.
Because most of the RPG "fans" on Yea Forums are redditors or crossposters from the Codex, where the only acceptable RPG is a IE game clone or old FPS with stats since new FPS with stats BAD.

jrpg fags have no taste and gobble up anything served to them
>Are wrpgs in THAT bad state
yes

I remember hearing a while back that Planescape Torment Enhanced Edition still needs a bunch of mods to be played optimally, but aside from the one that restores cut content I can't remember what they were. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

Go back to the olden days

>or old FPS with stats since new FPS with stats BAD.
because it's fucking impossible for an older game to do things better than a newer game, right?

and you're the perfect judge of that

Just make more CRPGS based on the DnD systems. Nothing else is needed and everything else ESPECIALLY first person shit all sucks.

Arcanum is pretty top tier in story, role-playing, and setting, but jesus christ does the gameplay fucking blow.

Don't misunderstand, they're all trash for me, I don't care what you think about Dark Messiah or System Shock being somehow better than Ascendant or FO4, they're all garbage.

serious question how is poe 2 now with all the patches etc?

So? What the fuck is anyone supposed to take anything away from what you're saying?

HEY HEY PEOPLE.

The items themselves aren't clear enough to be labeled as a crafting material of any sort. So you see like a scalpel somewhere, you might think it's trash, but it's part of a crafting recipe for some medical shit I forgot. Having a label "material" on every item that is part of a recipe would go a long way to differentiate trash from useful stuff.

WRPGs just aren't made much anymore, whereas new JRPGs are always coming out.

>Just make more CRPGS based on DnD 4e
ftfy

>something new
Like what? Both Final Fantasy XV and KH3 are trash, Persona 5 is the same shit as always, and there's plenty of nostalgiafagging on both sides. Also plenty of people praise newer RPGs like the DivOS games, Legend of Grimrock 1/2, Pathfinder, Kingdom Come Deliverance, Underrail
>WRPG aren't made anymore
Blatantly false

>This is just one dude showing off though, not unlike DMC combo videos. It requires great timing and skill to pull off.
so what? what can i get out of this RPG that i can't get out of just playing DMC?

Maybe get your IQ higher than room temperature and you won't have problems understanding some really simple point, tastes of other people aside.
Or maybe you're just another butthurt Codex dweller mad that somebody is calling out that shithole on their garbage, I don't know, and I don't really care either.
WRPG are still made, the problem is that they're vastly garbage and the few games that aren't are not garbage enough for the big WRPG audience to care, or monstruosly overrated crap.

Underrail and ATOM RPG are awesome if you like post-apocalyptic RPGs.

I didn't have much of a problem, but I wouldn't object to the items being labeled. It's not as necessary in something like Skyrim, where it's pretty obvious that you can use plants for alchemy and metal and gems for smithing, but it would make sense in something like Fallout where random crap can be used.

Rpgs are tiring. Why does each need to be 100 hours long?

>caring that much about IQ
I'm just wondering what the fuck is the point of you telling me that you think that all of those previously mentioned games are shit. I'm not even mad about it, god knows things like DMoMM are clunky as fuck with Ascendant being a badly done trash fire.

If you want to bother replying to me and saying all of that shit is trash, say why you think so, so we can both use our brains and think about our opinions.
>"I think all of this shit is garbage"
doesn't fucking tell anything to anyone, aside from maybe making you look like an idiot. This is really basic stuff, user.

normie appeal is le difficulty but Souls is probably the most unique form of RPG that isn't just hampering off of JRPG turn based crap and WRPG isometric crap
exploration, combat, music art design...
souls is extremely good in every area
there's nobody to hold your hand, you're given no objective but you know you must progress
both RPG genres need to ditch their old dogmatic ways in favor of new ones, im so sick of this fucking CRPG era where the only thing that changes is the god damn setting

Calm down user, is almost as you are trying to tell that WRPG's are the RickyAndMorty of RPGs.

There are some really banal things in New Vegas that are parts of recipes that in similar games by Bethesda they're just very cheap vendor trash not even worth the weight to carry, like forks, or was it a screwdriver? Like shitty utensils you find that are part of those recipes in NV. The crafting also feels shitty in a way, you get gecko skins and shit, and there's not a lot of armors you can create, or a hat that you can make, you can craft a fuckton of things but it feels like there's not really a lot you can do considering how much shit you can hoard in NV. I don't know if FO3 suffers of the same issue because I'll admit I skipped it after hearing many times how it is Oblivion with guns.

beaten all of them except gothic 2 and mask of the betrayer

>I'm just wondering what the fuck is the point of you telling me that you think that all of those previously mentioned games are shit
You're a special need kid, are you?
Why do you even ask me what you yourself already understand?
>so we can both use our brains and think about our opinions.
Dude, you think you can do that on Yea Forums?
In a WRPG thread?
>is almost as you are trying to tell that WRPG's are the RickyAndMorty of RPGs.
You're really not that far off from the truth.

Exactly this is why Tyranny is so good.

I want CRPGs to become higher polished and WIDER not longer.

Instead of making 100s of hour long experiences make a game that is 10-20 hours long but very responsive to player choice and consequences instead.

Most CRPG players have jobs and don't have the time or will to play such long games nowadays.

>both RPG genres need to ditch their old dogmatic ways in favor of new ones
What do you mean by that, if you count WRPGs that aren't just turn based, you could put the Grimrock games, Shadowrun Dragonfall, Divinity OS, all games don't play similarly, have different tones, different focus.

>Tranny
>Good

Attached: 1474287999254.jpg (1564x1564, 529K)

>I don't know if FO3 suffers of the same issue
FO3 has very little crafting. I think there are only about seven or eight things you can make.

i mean the formulaic garbage of
>isometric
>blank state protag
>party-based
>turn based
and plenty more, you could have like isometric without the rest or party based like Dragons Dogma but having all these features just makes me feel like i'm playing Baldurs Gate with a new skin

by not producing games that are a mixup between shooters and RPGs or hack n' slash and RPGs but with the RPGs elements reduced to just leveling up and allocating stats

But BG isn't turn based, and you can't have a definite protagonist in WRPGs because neckbeards will begin having seizures about MUH FREEDOM OF ROLEPLAYING.
And most importantly, you do not want an action based WRPG, leave that shit to japs, at least they get it right once in a while, the west is a lost cause.

innovation
you either have
>open world
>hub based
or
>linear

Attached: journey.jpg (3000x1050, 2.73M)

That's how.

Attached: welcome_to_the_colony.png (640x360, 274K)

did anyone here play Shadowrun returns?

DivOS is not isometric though

Fuck you. As good as the setting was, content wise Gothic 2 is atleast thrice as vast as G1. Gameplay matters.

yes, I played Dead Man's Switch and it was kinda mediocre, Dragonfall has much better refinements and story, still gotta play Hong Kong, but I heard DF is the best of the three campaigns

>instead let Americans make dumbed down shit for console peasants

What are the best roleplaying (Choice and Consequence) RPGs with avoidable or no combat?

I played:
>Planescape Torment
>Age of Decadence
>Arcanum
>Torment Numenera
>Tyranny

Call me a pussy but I am a pacifist and I want to play games without violence in them. So I'd like games with no combat or easily avoidable combat please.

Hub based worlds are the best, as seen in STALKER, Deus Ex, Dishonored. You can put more details on the maps than seamless open worlds but with enough freedom to allow different gameplay. i'll take some loading between the gated areas just fine, it's not like SSDs have made loading times irrelevant anyway

I've played all three. Personally, I liked Hong Kong the least, but a lot of other people like it. It's pretty hit-or-miss.

Fallout 2

You mean like 2 turks did in a garage that the multimillionaire burger Bethesda still cannot do? I mean shit even M&B's simplistic world representation feels more alive than any Bethesda game ever does

Attached: file.png (474x660, 759K)

Blank slate is the only way to make a good CRPG though.

>Get rid of the gay isometric shit for starters.
How can one person be so wrong?

Too niche I guess. One could complain about the lack of any Ultima games

I think you can absolutely have a pretty defined character in crpg. Sure it limits some of your ability to roleplay, but if you put other ewstrictions in place, it will work out ok. Good case - Adam Jensen from DE:HR. It's completely done and ready character, down to voice acting. But because the gameplay is pretty strict, you can't do just whatever. Yet still you can roleplay. First of all, you can chose how to deal with each situation, how approach problems. And with character interractions you too can roleplay to an extent. But you will play role of Adam's conscience, you will decide how he reacts emotionally to what's happening to him, how he enterprets things. Will he be a grumpy cunt asshole that goes around and kicks babies in the face? Or will he be troubled by what had happened to him, but have a more positive outlook on what's happening? Will he abuse his powers? Pretty interesting stuff in my opinion, but purefags will get angry.

But the games you think are good are worse than the games you think are bad.

Just let them die.

i fucking loved new vegas and the choice that it gave me. i loved the intricate & unique factions, the strange 1950's retrofuturistic wild west aesthetic, and the fact that humanity actually rebuilt and got its shit together after the nukes.
but how the fuck do you enjoy fallout 1/2? every person I talk to who has played them swears them to be the best games ever but i'm not seeing it.
the combat is fucking atrocious, the early game gives you such laughably weak guns that you have to waste points on melee until you find the pipe gun or 10mm in the klamath caves (which is hidden behind a bunch of enemies and a bossfight, and blends in so well with the muddy background that i had to look up a guide on where to find it), speccing into agi is essentially mandatory if you actually want to try any kind of tactics in combat, half of the skills are worthless and an AGI/PER/Gifted cheese run is all but mandatory to get through the godawful combat in a reasonable amount of time.
new vegas's combat wasn't great but it was at least fun and build dependent. i loved trying out stupid shit like a cowboy gats only run or an explosives expert who has a knack for beating people to death with sledgehammers, all the while being able to flesh out my character with dialogue and decisions.
also Fallout 2's starting area is the FUCKING WORST FOR ANY RPG EVER. I'm not even talking about the temple, which was easy if not a little frustrating. But holy shit, who the FUCK thought that making the protag be a retard tribal was a good idea?
How the fuck am I reasonably supposed to do a badass mercenary or egghead scientist if I'm supposed to be playing as Grug, who has lived in a village all his life and knows nothing but bullshit superstition and farming desert? That's 19 fucking years of backstory basically locked in story. New Vegas only forces two things on you: one, you are a mailman. two, something you were delivering triggered an explosion which may or may not be your fault.

Disregarding your shitpost it made me think.
>I'm surprised people haven't copied the elderscrolls and fallout 3+ formula but actually made it good instead of some shallow empty shitheap for normies.

Why has no one copied the "looting in a big open world in first-person with factions and NPC dialogue" games yet? Only bethesda seem to make them.

Attached: 1497122155989.jpg (728x1044, 147K)

how is system shock 2 holding?
i want to play it for like 20 years and still havent come around.

i've bought ATOM RPG recently and fucking russians did a great job.
it's literally fallout 2 in russia. they even have the fucked up inventory and everything.

VtM:B is trash, replace it with NV or Arx Fatalis

which one is the best

yep, it's definitely 1-2 tiers below the rest

1) Stop pandering to SJWs and numales;
2) Learn with the japanese and add cute girls;
3) ?????????;
4) PROFIT.

Attached: 1549134217731.jpg (1280x720, 536K)

Story and atmosphere is good, soundtrack is good, you got build options that alter how you play, and the controls are fine. I can understand people who think the first game is too difficult to play, but System Shock 2 is perfectly streamlined to me.

you have ELEX from the same devs

Did you like Prey (2017)?
Prey was originally System Shock 3 but they didn't get the rights. They then named it to Neuro Shock but Bethesda forced the studio to use the Prey IP.

Basically Prey is an improved System Shock 2 and superior. If you don't like Prey you will never get into System Shock 2. If you like Prey and can enjoy games like the original Deus Ex then you'll enjoy System Shock 2.

i used to be like you zoomer
played once - didnt like it
then i tried again
still didnt work for me
then i tried again
and then something clicked
FO2 was one of the best experiences i have ever had
together with FO1 they are ones of my favourite games ever made

calm your head
take your time
master the game

VtM:B is a good game but it has some absolute shit straight up 3/10 moments in the game that people usually forget about or intensionally ignore. But I think the sheer roleplaying and how well it stood up to the test of time makes it eligible to stand in that list.

it's fantastic
easiest playthrough for newbies is going navy focused on standard weapons, maintenance, and hacking
play at least on hard

>calm your head
>take your time
>master the game
i've done all three and it still hasn't clicked to me. it's not particularly difficult or frustrating, it's just exceedingly boring and inferior in all aspects to new vegas.

>Reddit text-block

Use spacing and correct syntax like us oldfags, zoomer.

Attached: 1530448528953.png (1543x948, 151K)

not this user but, Ive recently finished SS:EE
fantastic game
4 months ago i finished Prey and it was ok - it had some problems, but it was "fun"
but i have tried SS2 two times
i just
i just cant
dark engine is fucking awful for this kind of game
its perfect for thief, i fucking love thief
but this? i cant take it, its genuinelly awful IMO
i wanted to make wrench build, becaus ei totally despise shooting and weapon degradation, but hitting anything feels like pure RNG (and it probably is)

SS>Prey>SS2

played it years ago, it's fucking great and much better than Bioshoock, which ditched the inventory, I played SS2 right before Bioshock and found the latter to be just a dumbed down version of the former, really

this is wrong, Prey 2017 was supposed to be named Typhoon but Zenimax wanted them to use it to keep the Prey license, so they demanded it to be renamed

SS2 shits on SS1 completely. SS1 is hitscanners, the game and devolves into leaning and shooting enemies in the foot while they can't react. Cyberspace is fucking garbage as well.

Hitting isn't RNG you're just retarded.

>I think you can absolutely have a pretty defined character in crpg. Sure it limits some of your ability to roleplay, but if you put other ewstrictions in place, it will work out ok
You do not need to convince me, you need to convince the hordes of neckbeards out there.
If it were for me all RPGs would have multiple predefinied MCs you could choose that cover certain archetypes which still allow you a certain degree of freedom in roleplaying, but pretty much nobody likes or wants that in the west, D:OS2 tried but was horribly halfassed to the point that most of the MCs are literally, literally generics with a few extra lines which most of the times redirect you to the same answers you'd get by choosing generic dialogue (looking at your Red Prince).
To this day the only series that can deliver on this are the SaGa games, but as long as they're stuck in the low budget dungeon they will never deliver their true potential, one can't live on one series alone either, as much as I like it.
I was super excited for D:OS2 since Larian made it seem like they did the same thing, six main characters with a lot of unique content and replay value, but the only character that actually delivered on that front was Fane, and the game itself, while a lot better than average, was also just as mechanically boring as the average WRPG, with the same tired questlines you'll see in every game ever, non existent lore (mostly because it's an inbetween game in the continuity I guess), largely inconsequential "roleplaying" and barely acceptable writing.

STALKER, and its world is superior to the static, overly scripted bethesda shit

As does my nephew. It's almost like young people are entertained by shallow things but then develop taste as they get older.

They're games that aimed for different goals. SS1 is a shooter and feels a lot like a space station dungeon crawler, but it has no stats and it's not a hybrid of a RPG, there is only item progression in getting jetpacks, chemical suits that allow you to explore areas with radiation and such.

System Shock 2 is clearly a RPG hybrid that uses a very traditional stats system with Strength Intelligence Agility etc.

Looks like a young Tom Green.

one of the better images of its kind I've seen here

The biggest disappointment in gaming history, before spore, no man's sky and the ending of mass effect.

does mass effect 1 count as a rpg

literally 1000x better than nu-wow

Prey is worse than Bioshock, despite having an inventory it's hard to shake how mediocre Prey can get at times. The enemy variety and arsenal are pitiful, there's a certain blandness to it, how the nightmares are pretty much an enlarged phantom visually. Also allowing you to fly outside of the station kinda removes the tension, the same shit that Bioshock 2 did and it's retarded. In Bioshock 1, you see the glass crackling and think you're fucked, in B2 the glass breaks and hey, you can't drown and the pressure can't kill you, there you go there's no more tension and claustrophobia anymore, the feeling of being boxed in. It's just as retarded as making your player character a fucking Big Daddy, while mechanically being kinda identical to a fragile human being in the first game in combat, the difference being when bullets hit you in B2 you hear metallic sounds.

can you name a single JRPG that has better turn based combat than Divinity: Original Sin?

Deus ex 1 & 3 & 3.5

>Prey is worse than Bioshock
kys

>This post again

>can't even point to a single example
thought so

I don't have the habit of seriously replying to memes, I'm sorry.

Just accept that the last good American RPG was released a decade ago and play CK2 instead.

It is though, it feels like a bootleg System Shock 2 without enough variety to the weapons and enemies, now Bioshock is definitely dumbed down SS2 but at least the setting and enemies are ten times more original than what Prey has. Prey might be closer to SS2 when you factor in it has an inventory, but the game drops the ball too much with other parts of the game to make it matter. Arkane fans really need to get a fucking reality check with the narrative that "poor Prey developers were wronged, nobody wants to play immersive sims anymore" that's just fucking drivel.

You know, people post shit like this with Tales games but the main problem I always seen in these kinds of vids is that they're mostly just exhibition and are never really that useful in-game.

The only time I've seen stuff like this that actually work in-game are Star Ocean 3 and Valkyrie Profile 2.

I agree with the other dude, kys
Bioshocks are trash games

>memes
more like you're a weebfag who can't realize Japan has never done turn based combat as interesting as a recent western RPG, but hey if some people enjoy playing the 10000th iteration of dumbed down Ultima/Wizardry, more power to them

Long combos are useful, they keep you safe and raise your Grade as long as you keep them up, it isn't any different from SO or VP.

You two can't even respond to my points, are you just drooling Arkane drones?

KOTOR in this day and age is like a pre-alpha DA:O.

mind you I don't count SO2 because you really can't "combo" there but just stunlock shit and for VP1 it's more of a limited thing unlike VP2

and I get that, but bosses tend to have this "break the stun" shit

I'll echo what that other user said in a post above, why not stick with a Devil May Cry type games rather than this ? What exactly does it have to offer?

>RPGs should only just be slow and slog

Now THIS is a game I'm surprised nobody bothered copying.
Only Kenshi somewhat did it.

Well I played Eternia and Symphonia when I was younger, and I hardly remember the stories but the main appeal was exploring new areas (Eternia at least has nice art) and collecting powerups, in this case elemental "craymels" that you can use to customize your party in different ways.

It's a well written and engaging RPG with great replayability and an active modding community.
It's everything that normies like about Bethesda RPG's but for people that have played good video games.

Thinking that braindead MMO combat but turn based is anything but laughable tells more about the sorry state of WRPGs than JRPG combat, but then again, I see this shitpost reposted a lot in here so whatever, feel free to show how deluded you are some more.
>mind you I don't count SO2 because you really can't "combo" there but just stunlock shit
It's really not that different, spamming Explosive Fist to keep something stunlocked ain't that different from doing something like that webm, more boring and less flashy, sure, but the end result is the same, outside of the grade bonus I guess.
VP is different since there you can't just chain anything indefinitely through player skill due to having a very clear forced return to neutral, but still, creating a long combo rewards you in the same way, even more actually since longer combos in VP mean more crystals, more EXP and more item drops.
>What exactly does it have to offer?
>Man, I really like DMC combat
>I wish there were more games like it
Are you retarded?
What exactly is bad about having more of the same thing?
Why even play turn based games when there's chess?
Why play System Shock when there's DOOM?
Why play X-Com when there's AoE or Starcraft?

I mean in SO2 it's literally just two different attack tops, unlike SO3 or other Tales games which are a bit more flexible.

I mentioned specifically VP2 because it has more flexible combos rather than being limited to a three move.

Sewers and that vampire hunter base bit are the reasons I can't replay it no matter how much I want to.

>RPG must only be poor man's 2D DMC

Europeans are the only ones that have been making good RPG's for the past decade, America only has Obsidian and their quality varies greatly.
That is unless you're honestly trying to suggest that Bioware and Bethesda are capable of making good games.

>MMO combat
You sure are a retard, it has things like positioning and friendly fire, which already puts it far above the vast majority of turn based RPGs, in fact most MMORPGs aren't even turn based, talk about a dumb comparison.

>his only comparison is DMC
>when games likes this existed before DMC
>when they are even structured as RPGs in spite of that

I can tell you're a pretendo zoomer

Age of Decadence was good.

>I mentioned specifically VP2 because it has more flexible combos rather than being limited to a three move.
Matters little whether you mention VP2 instead of 1, that Tri-Ace model is always the same, be it VP1 or 2, Resonance of Fate, Frontier Gate or even Star Ocean, the core design is effectively the same with combo length being the only thing that's different.
Tri-Ace games force a reset to neutral at some point, Tales of games do not due to having lots and lots of tricks to keep up offensive indefinitely, where the only thing that changes between games is how easy or hard it's to keep that up, that's the only difference between the two.
>it has things like positioning and friendly fire, which already puts it far above the vast majority of turn based RPGs
Positioning is literally an afterthough in D:OS games, especially 2, we've already had this "argument" time and again, and friendly fire isn't even a novelty, SNES games had friendly fire, something like TO on the SNES has more relevant positioning than D:OS, AKA teleport central, fucking Front Mission 1 had more relevant positioning than D:OS games.

You did not understand the question, other than a wannabe DMC combat, what exactly does it offer OVER DMC?
>Why even play turn based games when there's chess?
You do realize there's no story to chess, there's no character/item progression in chess, right? Turn based combat in games encompasses a fuckload of things that chess does not have.
>Why play System Shock when there's DOOM?
Metroidvania elements in SS, exploration, story elements and lore that don't exist in Doom other than a joke with the bunny.
I don't play RTS so I don't really care about the last comparison.
Also DMC is pretty known for having shit like juggling, and a very popular series with it, I didn't say DMC invented juggling. It's like Halo popularizing FPS on consoles, it did not invent it, but people give it credit for opening the floodgates.

you answered your own question

Depends really in tri-Ace. Basically you need to know how to extend combos.

>he still thinks it's related to DMC at all

>afterthought
Oh really, because overextending with a frail character can easily get that character killed in D:OS. I would rather have that than the static two sides hit each other and fuck all happens setting that composes the vast majority of turn based JRPGs. I also enjoy how you had to go back to SNES games to come up with examples, who's living in the past now? I mean I see people praising the hell of shit like Bravely Default, and that game ain't exactly a shining example of amazing turn based combat, yet you fags drool all over it.

>fallout 2
>not 1
did reddit make this list and call it Yea Forums?

>Fallout 2
>not Fallout

I too hate a good tone, any sense of atmosphere, and good writing. It’s much better when all that is removed.

>what exactly does it offer OVER DMC?
Hundreds of skills that alter what strategies to rely on
Combat system works very differently depending on which character you pick
Expanding on the above, there are 9 characters to choose from, each with their own gimmicks with some like Patty and Judith being notoriously hard to master and the character you control can be switched on the fly
It's a party-based action RPG with tons of character interactions, local co-op, cheesy anime stuff, and tons of other stuff DMC doesn't have, the same way DMC has tons of stuff this game doesn't have.
My initial point was that: action combat in RPGs, western or japanese, don't have to be bad. Good action-oriented combat in RPGs exist, and while it's no DMC or Bayonetta, having good action combat does more good than harm.

and you still don't know what I'm talking about, what exactly the game in that webm offers over playing a "stylish action combat" game? Surely you can see the difference between playing chess and playing Final Fantasy VII, X-COM UFO Defense or Kingdom of Loathing

I'm not even a big tales fan user, but there's a difference in an RPG where you attack when you press a button. You don't play Tales for doing DMC combos or "being stylish". In fact I am worried about your insistence in comparing the two. You pretendo zoomer.

>what exactly does it offer OVER DMC?
Oh I don't know.
Maybe RPG mechanics, multiple playable characters, story elements and lore that don't exist in DMC other than pizza memes, a different take on flashy action combat...
You do know that Tales also existed WAY before DMC, do you?
>Oh really, because overextending with a frail character can easily get that character killed in D:OS.
There are no frail characters in D:OS, you can assign points however you want and you have plenty, let alone the fact that you can completely break the game statistically and mechanically in the first hour, or abuse the generous amounts of mechanical oversights in the game.
>I would rather have that than the static two sides hit each other and fuck all happens
Sure, if you want to waste 10 minutes on the same exact thing that can be achieved in one, feel free to, far be it from me to stop you enjoying something.
>also enjoy how you had to go back to SNES games to come up with examples
I have to since you're so ignorant to think something that existed since decades is somehow unique or noteworthy, but if you want more recent examples you can play any modern SRPG and find those very same elements, even kiddie shit like Summon Night 6 has positioning and friendly fire mechanics, but you don't see me slobbing on it like it's some kind of god's gift to RPGs or pretending D:OS games are somehow a novelty and how japs don't do it when they do it plenty.
>yet you fags drool all over it.
>you
Who are you quoting?
Not me, that's for certain, and I can say the same about you pretending D:OS is anything but passable, especially the first one.

Attached: 1487888811372.jpg (960x720, 108K)

>NWN2
>Not NWN1
You fucking pretender

get a job making WRPGs?

Attached: 1549406439212.jpg (634x649, 325K)

dumb weeb

dumb vesperia poster

I would like a shorter, linear game with small hand crafted levels jam packed with content. No walking simulator pls

Attached: 1537312073866.png (1600x900, 207K)

>can't understand what good combat is supposed to feel like
then why does every good combat game mirror medieval europe ;^)))))))))))))))))))

Attached: This is (You).png (940x118, 107K)

I think the souls games did it right by sticking to the basics and making them great, especially stamina and shields. However since DeS you can see a straightforward progression away from shields in favour of greater complexity in attacks and weapon variety, and more importance on dodging, which is obvious in Bloodborne and now Sekiro taking it even further.

The encounters in D:OS are limited, you don't have grinding in it, unlike most JRPGs where you can grindf your heart out allowing you to obliterate anything. You're accusing it of flaws that plenty of JRPGs fall into
>no frail characters
I'd love to see you dashing straight to a group of enemies with a rogue in it and survive
>waste 10 mins
Hello there ADHD, it takes very little time to position characters well in D:OS, it's called strategy, saying you would rather prefer static encounters in a turn based combat where you just spam X to autoattack the trash mobs "coz its faster" says a lot about you.
Also I never said it's God's gift to gaming, I'm just replying to weebs who pretend anything the japanese shit is the gift and there's absolutely nothing on the other side.

I mean that guy who says people who enjoy WRPG live on the past couldn't be further from the truth, Squeenix is squeezing pennies from nostalgia, selling the FFVII remake twice after splitting the game, because the suckers are this starved for JRPG nostalgia. Pokemon for that matter is a series that keeps remaking and reusing the same areas and it's probably the most nostalgia baiting series around. Or the Bravely/Octopath developers, their entire schtick is "we make JRPGs similar to before they started sucking". Meanwhile there's way more grassroots initiatives in the west.

>Turn based battles
OH NONONO PLEASE NO

Fuck every game with that kind of gameplay

Attached: 1526154262651.jpg (1078x1356, 987K)

I don't like prey demo enough to buy it