Whoops, I forgot to tell him you can coat your attacks in Conqueror's haki

Not a retcon you just hate how it was presented. I swear I see people call every shounen a retcon just because there is an obvious power up later that the true big shots of the verse have.

I'd argue that the abilities we see with Color of Armament would be better as a way to play into the elemental rps, rather than just to overrule them. We see Luffy punching with fire, so there should be other methods. Without playing into that giving Luffy a fire punch was pretty pointless.

For what reason?

soul vs soulless

Yes, but there's no reason why you can't have both. After all less than half the SH have Haki of any sort. And there hasn't even been that many logia post-timeskip either.

I gave up when Jinbe joined. Have not read a chapter since. But I keep coming here and know the gist of what is going on from reading the threads.

>giving Luffy a fire punch was pretty pointless.
Yes, exactly
It's just a visual effect that Oda tought looked cool for his punches
We never saw anyone getting scorched by Red attacks, they only have blunt force
There was no retarded explanation about Luffy heating up with friction like Diable Jambe, and no logical progression from armament to burning up either, except as a progression from overheating and giving off steam from Gear Second, which didn't make a lot of sense either
It's like CoC manifesting black lightning, we don't really know if it's there as a visual indicator for us, the readers', convenience, or if it's a real physical phenomenon characters interact with

you newbs weren't there when blackbeard vs ace fight happened.
blackbeard's mysterious ability where he was able to grab ace, which shouldn't be possible up to that point because physical haki shite didn't exist.
even Oda himself didn't know about physical haki when he drew that scene. lol

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Let's see...
Caribou was punched harder
Caesar was punched harder
Smoker was cut harder (but Smoker doens't count ot be honest)
Monet was scared shitless and then cut harder, she's not going to be back by the way
Trebol turned out to not be a Logia after all
Katakuri was punched harder and then retconned into a "special Paramecia"
There might not have been that many Logia, but the record is 100% for "just punch them with haki lol"
I mean, Luffy seems to have fire attacks now, would have it been so hard to write some shit about how he could damage Caesar by igniting his body? Or damaging Katakuri by melting his?

blackbeards mysterious ability was haki foreshadowing

when Oda drew this panel, he himself didn't have a plan for retarded physical/mental haki battle system.
that's why Blackbeard being able to grab ace was so impactful.
even Ace is surprised that blackbeard is grabbing him. HAHAHAHAHAHA

Now with haki, everyone and their grandma can grab logia users.

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It was explained as a power of his DF in the same chapter, like 1-2 pages later, Uncle Kizaru

Oda fanboy cope.
you newbies DO know this was right after Ennies Lobby arc??
Where CP9 "doriki" system was indroduced (and since then, Oda never mentioned because even he probably is cringing)

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To be fair, Blackbeard's power is stronger, it doesn't just allow him to touch and hit Logia: it completely shuts down any DF ability upon contact, passive or active

>and since then, Oda never mentioned because even he probably is cringing
The cp9 agent that made luffy job to kaido used the skin hardening technique a couple chapters ago

Are you dense? Or have oyu not actually read the manga?
That poster was talking about doriki, not rokushiki

u guys are bullshitting. Ace never says anything about bb grabbing him. When he says "cant be" its cuz when bb grabbed him his df shut off totally, thats what hes reacting too. Blackbeard power is significant cuz it totally shuts down the users fruit, so when they touch him its as if they have none. If blackbeard was using haki, ace could turn all his body except for the part bb was touching into fire and attack him.

That is not what he was talking about, Kizaru. He said that the doriki power measuring system was never used again, and he is right. He was not talking about Rokushiki .
Heck, Sanji is using geppo and Luffy is using soru.

that still falls under the general cp0 power system which oda has clearly not forgotten about

We know that, we're just saying, the impact of BB's ability is lessened because it was introduced as one of the only ways to damage Logia users, besides using a very specific element
Turning off DF abilities is still strong (if BB even gets to touch them), but now everyone and their grandmother can do the punching Logia part just fine
By the way, how did Whitebeard use his quake while touching Blackbeard's face?

It does not fall under the doriki system which is what that user was talking about.
Now swallow your pride and just fucking admit that you misunderstood rather than doing mental gymnastics to protect your ego.

well yea doriki is cringe as fuck, but why would this ever come up again? its a power measuring tool cp-9 uses on there own agents, why would it be relevant ever again? it has no reason to be. Would you be happier if when cp-0 was introd some dude said,"woah i just measured his power and its 999,999,999!!" oda used it to give us a rough idea of how powerful the agents were relative to each other and thats all it really needed to be

Can't wait for One piece card game bros. Gonna make a bunch of money and hopefully have a good time. Imagine pulling a rare card that is a kino panel.

youtu.be/e54MOAVf37s

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i agree that BBs power was lessened but i dont care cuz its still op as fuck generally. this isnt really a fuck up on the authors part at all, i dont see whats wrong with giving people an easier counter to logias

It did not need to exist in the first place. The obvious inspiration for doriki was the power level from Dragonball. But Dragonball introduced power levels for the sole purpose of deconstructing the concept.
The usual modus operandi was that somebody would use a scouter to measure the power levels of the fighters to conclude that one was superior to the other, only to be blown out of the water shortly after when one of them showed techniques that made the initial reading bullshit. If we went by power levels, Vegeta should have easily defeated Goku but he did not. Frieza and his men should have easily defeated the Z fighters & co. but they did not. That was the entire point. To give the bad guys a feeling of certainty in them having the advantage only to be proven wrong by the heroes.

the real fucking oda is a fucking dumbass retcon none of you are talking about is this. Ace was well informed about world events, even noticing luffys new bounty right away. Yet, somehow, he never new about Sabo??? who has a massive bounty and is the right hand man of dragon?? sabos amnesia was already cringe as fuck but still ace should have realized that this infamous dude is his fucking brother.

I'm not convinced a physical card game could get in the oversaturated market, but then again, I would have said the same about Force of Will

I acknowledge most people are this retarded but you do realize retcon means retroactive continuity, right? When those chapters were originally published, they had a continuity, there were mysteries and errors but mostly things worked. But when Oda introduces things that contradict earlier material (as he did with Haki), then it becomes retroactive continuity because you have to now go back and read those chapters and pretend they always meant to lead you to where they eventually went which is not at all true. Yes, authors are capable of making errors in their story but this is due to negligence, he didn't intentionally write the wrong things so that 10 years later he could show you what he really meant for readers to read in those chapters.

Bounties already serve that purpose in One Piece anyway.

The problem is that specific Logia users, and Logia in general, were hyped up as an unstoppable threat, like we were supposed to shit our pants at the tought of Akainu ever confronting the SHs directly again because they couldn't even touch him
Haki means those characters will never again live up to that hype, no big deal, I still think Aokiji will give Luffy the fight of his life, but Haki stil cheapens his abilities a little

having a brain vs you

That fight was after Luffy questioned how Garp was able to hit him.

Bounties are not power levels, Kizaru

people say this and act like they made a point but going by ur definiton, almost any plot twist is a retcon. Ur using retcon just to mean "plot twist i didnt like" there is not even a concrete contradiction like u said. An example of a actual retcon would be something like Roger actually being alive this whole time.

I do not like mindless brawls, which is why most fights in OP are boring to me. I like Jojo-esque fights where each battle is unique in the sense that the combattants have to come up with ways to specifically counter the abilitiy of their opponent.
Now we have this asspull ability that allows everybody to just punhc everybody, regardless of their abilities. That broes me to tears.

It's going to happen and you are going to like it.

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But he is right that they serve the same purpose. If somebody has a bounty of one quiadrillion, the assumption is that this person is super important with regard to what they are doing.
Sure, if the person is primarily known for being a scientist, then we do not assume that he is a super strong fighter, but a brilliant scientist with inventions that are out of this world.
If he is a primarily known as a fighter, however, then we assume that he must be a godly fighter.
If that person is primarily known as a prostitute, then her fucking must be so intense that it even threatens the stability of the World Government.

bros??????????? he meant he would live on in the hearts of the people he inspired right???????

>almost any plot twist is a retcon.
This is a supremely retarded take.
A good plot twist must be planned from the beginning. Why? Because what makes a plot twist good is that it re-contextualizes everything that has happened up until that point.
If a plot-twist is a chieved via a retcon, then nothing really fits and the author has to throw bullshit rationalizations at his audience for why XYZ happened which does not fit the new information, whereas a good plot twist makes the audience themselves go "AHHH NOW I UNDERSTAND! So that is why xyz happened! It all makes perfect sense now!"

Are you retarded?

I did during the samurai island. It got a bit boring

Still FAR better than the laundry list of things Jiraya could have taught Naruto in the three years he had with him but didn't.
>Whoops I forgot to tell him he could speed up his training with Shadow Clones
>Whoops I forgot to tell him Elemental Chakra Exists and can be fused with the Rasengan
>Whoops I forgot to tell him about Sage Mode
>Whoops I stopped trying to teach him how to control the Kyubi Chakra because of one incident that hurt me and not him
>Whoops I taught him an anti Genjutsu trick that the biggest Uchiha Prodigy since Madara would Know about and can bypass and could murder Naruto in that timeframe he shuts off his chakra
>Whoops I turned him into a tunnel vision moron who only spams Rasengan.
I'd take Rayleigh not telling me something I'll probably understand myself (which Luffy pretty much did) than that.

look man, get as mad as you want, but there is no contradiction in the haki stuff.

Reading the stuff u posted it seems the only things that were "contradicted" are the headcannons you made of the authors original intentions.

Like I said earlier you are literally just using retcon to mean "plot twist i didnt like". Heres another example of what an actual retcon in one piece would look like. Whitebeard and ace were actually alive this whole time and just hiding away somewhere. This blatantly contradicts what was presented to us, the audience, as a cold, hard, undisputable fact.

On the other hand, there is no contradiction with the haki stuff. Yes maybe not all of the foreshowing was intentional but that dosnt really matter because oda still tied all of it together coherently, there is no actual fucking contradiction.

Every bad plot twist is a retcon, yes. Authors leave certain things open which is where they put their new later ideas. But if you have to change the continuity of stuff that was shown to introduce your new thing, it is a retcon. This newly-established status quo is not possible in the old continuity.

some bad plot twists are definitely retcons, but these things are not mutually exclusive

It's literally the same thing narratively. Did you even read Dragon Ball?

this is wrong and also does not change that fact that the dude i was arguing with isnt even using the word retcon correctly.

>Whitebeard and ace were actually alive this whole time and just hiding away somewhere
That would never happen, Oda would just have them come back and explain how they were revived. It's just Sabo all over again. When people get mad about Sabo they aren't getting mad that Oda retconned that he was dead. That wasn't a retcon, everyone knew he wasn't dead because he was purposely written to not actually be dead because Oda knew he was going to reintroduce him. They are getting mad because Oda retconned the entire story of many major characters so they suddenly had this other person they cared about who clearly none of them knew about until after Oda thought him up much later and now we're meant to go back and read those stories as if he was there the whole time but it doesn't actually make any fucking sense.

Smoker and Tashigi are labelled as traitor and are both butt fucked by the Celestial Dragons.

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Do you think Oda blushed his cheek a little when he used Reiley to describe kindly to us how ACKTUALLY the "predicting movement" we saw in Skypea was ACKTUALLY this thing called mental haki?

I suggest you guys to go back and re-read the Hancock island chapter + Reighley chapter.
You can see Oda desperately trying to explain this newly conceived haki battle-system shit, like Luffy constantly have dialouges like "i'm made of rubber! golly jee! why does it hurt? what does it mean?"

Oda's mistake was not explaining more things that way. Haki is not some original concept, the abilities it provides were always in the series. What he chose to do for all of them (except Mantra) was confirm they WEREN'T Haki which just causes so many more problems. Suddenly any major players introduced early in the series are confusing as fuck because apparently they only learned Haki after Luffy.

i agree with you that the stuff around sabo, specifically shit like ace not knowing he was alive somehow, is a blatant retcon.

but it dosnt change the fact that what the other dude was saying was wrong. the shit he was talking about with haki isnt even a retcon, and he dosnt even understand what a retcon really is in the first place