Yea Forums is so unread in poetry that one of the common complaints against modern poetry is its lack of rhyme...

poetry is overrated in my opinion (not counting epic poems and zen poetry)
Its far too easy for some upper class asshole to reference a million “cultural” things and everyone who already knows those things gets a nerd-boner remembering how great those things are
modern poetry is defacto for women and people who don’t read so it just hits on universal experiences.

I’m open to being wrong on this

Don't pretend you're so intelligent for saying this. The vast majority of contemporary free verse poetry lacks any kind of intentionality or purpose in its meter, and that is a real problem.
>but you can still scan it!
How about you scan my dick.

I don't think I'm particularly intelligent for saying there's no such thing as metreless poetry, I just think you are particularly stupid for believing that modern poetry lacks metre, substance or themes.
Just because it's in a metre you don't like or has themes you don't like doesn't mean they're not there.

>I’m open to being wrong on this
you're wrong

recommend some poetry
i’ve read zen poem collections, illiad, odyssey, and a bit of byron (that went over my head) and whatever garbage teach in american schools
preferably stuff from non-anglos

You want poetry translated to English?

>you are particularly stupid for believing that modern poetry lacks metre,
Read more carefully. I didn't say contemporary poetry doesn't have meter, but that contemporary poets ignore their meter and have no sense of rhythm. If you scan any poem published in a reputable venue from the last 40 years and compare it to the scansion of prose there is no discernible difference. Poets who entirely ignore two of the foundational elements of poetry (meter and rhythm) are poor poets. The new formalist movement is an exception, and I enjoy many contemporary poets in that area.
>substance or themes.
I did not comment on either of these things. Kindly take your medicine.

what makes non-rhyming poetry, poetry? as opposed to something else

Yes you can fake it.
But real recognizes real, and unfortunately in the modern poetry world there are so much subtle implications it's hard to tell apart real and fake. On the other hand, if you do find real you will be handsomely rewarded, because our subtility as writers is growing by the year.

Yeah they expect you to dive deeply into their world, where the words have an internal rhythm that fit to them.
At times I feel modern poets let themselves indulge too much in a world, and don't consider the realities around them - but that's, I suppose, quite normal for poets.

I don't like to think of it as poetry, but rather wordsmithing.
Hmmmmm
Ok, look at it like that. Any text you ever wrote, is a logical structure, which your brain reads and associates to meaning(s). You can make simple structure, complex ones, and you can play around and break the words
Like
So.
So poetry, poetry, it is the art of making very delicate, precious creations. Today, as the world grows more fractured and more introspective, the creations poets make can turn inward, and it's hard to see the meaning from outside.
Not to worry, eh? As the Israelis say, just look at the picture. Don't dig too deep, and if you don't like it, try a different one, till you find something that clicks.

It’s embarrassing to get on a poetry thread here and see people posting their faux-victorian or romantic poetry with a cheesy rhyme scheme that was done already better 200 years sooner. I’m not saying don’t rhyme, but defending one particular type of poem—especially when it’s been depleted for decades—reflects an underread, underdeveloped aesthetic sensibility.

Basically, if had said that his post was a poem, we could then read it as a poem. It wouldn’t be very good, as it has little music or much in the way formally, language-wise, thematically, etc. that make it interesting.

Some people get very uncomfortable with the idea that if someone says “X is a poem” (or if that’s the general consensus) then it is one, but I see it as a liberating way of coming to a work. As someone else wrote here, real recognize real: good poets can still deploy poetic techniques or create new ones.

I’ve recently seen more discussion about how you know how to recognize a poem. The popular consensus comes back to language, but poets have been experimenting with language-less poems for years now: utilizing sound, images, non lettered type, etc. Looking at that post again, why not include the ID string “Anonymous 05/02/22(Mon)…” in it as part of the hypothetical poem? Again, these issues of what were once non-poetic seem particularly enthralling to me.

Is the Comedy the only epic poem that rhymes? Homer's poems don't, the Aeneid doesn't, Paradise Lost doesn't. I don't think Orlando Furioso rhymes. I don't think Faust rhymes either.

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On another note, I've recently been thinking a lot about coding and math.
Math seems to be the language of birds - you abstract the world away so you can look at it in whatever way you want, while coding is the language of the stone, the rules.
Do you have a good poem in mind that plays on those two elements - abstracting the world, and the rule sets? Something that goes both deep and light. If you can, Hopefully, not one after the 1970s - I find it hard to twist my mind around these later periods, but I'll try.
I found Kafka, for example, very Stony, while aching with compassion. The man and the gate is the way I think about man standing before the world. And as for flight, I can't seem to find an example. Honestly, the only image I get is a starting scene from genshin impact.

Hey everyone, what do you think of this? :

_

I flutter in tornadoes, and feel quite delighted
I smash dust, and air, and am quite content
Hit me, brother, fly me again,
for I am a monster, a monster in pain.

I flutter in pain, so does it seem - the pain where the echoes, they tumble through vain -
And if I was gay, and if I were bright - and If i were yellow, and i were right?
right.
a bird echoes bright - and the world reappears, and so does delight. and so does, a slight ickyness, a slight curl, around the back of the neck and the chest, the inner frontal regions, right there, a slight twist of t

yeah I definitely agree.

I used to send my mom pictures of poems here, and the aesthetic value of having Anonymous on the top left is quite good.

Oh shit, i'm gonna say it.

>Contemporary poetry (60's to now) is much better than anything before

If you disagree then you're a poetry pleb.

Inb4 that fucking nerd that only reads Shelley and supplements the rest with MF Doom lyrics.

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give examples you like?

There are some original poetry that's hard to beat, eh -
Behey ala gözlü dilber
Vaktin geçer demedim mi
Harami olmuş gözlerin
Beller keser demedim mi

general translation (copied, i can't speak it):

O belle with hazel eyes
didn’t I tell you that your time would pass
didn’t I tell you that your eyes are like bandits
that hold a mountain pass

gimme your best fight for a better poem

you can hear it in a modern enviornment here:
youtube.com/watch?v=kVyTLx2e_tQ
wicked beat.

Sure.

Kenneth Koch, Barbara Guest, Sheila Shannon, Sarah Holland-Batt, James Tate, Frank O'Hara, Petrit Halilaj (He's the Eric Andre of poetry, whatever that means to you), William Carlos Williams and let's say Eileen Myles. That's just off the top of my head, lmk if you want more recs. I'll check the poem you posted now.

>Your eyes are like bandits

That really is quite nice.

Something that can beat that, i'll have a think.
Maybe this? Although it is quite prosaic.

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Counterpoint: there is no other type of poetry that can match the epics, and there has been no meaningful epic poetry written in the past few decades.

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It was a lover and his lass,
With a hey, and a ho, and a hey nonino,
That o’er the green cornfield did pass,
In springtime, the only pretty ring time,
When birds do sing, hey ding a ding, ding;
Sweet lovers love the spring.

Between the acres of the rye,
With a hey, and a ho, and a hey nonino,
Those pretty country folks would lie,
In springtime, the only pretty ring time,
When birds do sing, hey ding a ding, ding;
Sweet lovers love the spring.

This carol they began that hour,
With a hey, and a ho, and a hey nonino,
How that a life was but a flower
In springtime, the only pretty ring time,
When birds do sing, hey ding a ding, ding;
Sweet lovers love the spring.

And therefore take the present time,
With a hey, and a ho, and a hey nonino,
For love is crownèd with the prime
In springtime, the only pretty ring time,
When birds do sing, hey ding a ding, ding;
Sweet lovers love the spring.

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Honestly, I’m not entirely certain if I follow the link from the birds to math and “the language of the stone” to coding. I think most people would point you to Mallarme’s work (poets.org/poem/throw-dice-excerpt) which subsequently influenced people like John Cage to use chance operations and certainly the Oulipo (poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/browse?contentId=41050) which has poet-mathematicians operating in it.

There’s also Wallace Stevens, of course, who is arguably the most philosophical American poet pre 1950 with a great deal of non-chalance and humor (poetryfoundation.org/poems/51648/anecdote-of-the-jar-56d22f87dc64f). And I’m fond of Elizabeth Bishop too (poemhunter.com/poem/the-map/). These might not be unfamiliar.

There’s lots of great post 1970s work. P. Inman is one that I like, but he’s difficult. His work can look like code: poetryfoundation.org/poems/54724/lacey

wonderful, I'll give it all a look.
I remember the music program gave me a task to write about john cage and I really liked that, his music was entrancing, so i think you and I are pointing in the same direction.
I suppose to explain the link better i'll have to first know what stone, iron, and the nazis, the soviets, and the thinking machine is for you. that's was my spontaneous chain of causation.

When the green woods laugh with the voice of joy
And the dimpling stream runs laughing by
When the air does laugh with our merry wit
And the green hill laughs with the noise of it

When the meadows laugh with lively green
And the grasshopper laughs in the merry scene
When Mary and Susan and Emily
With their sweet round mouths sing "Ha, ha he!"

When the painted birds laugh in the shade
Where our table with cherries and nuts is spread
Come live, and be merry, and join with me
To sing the sweet chorus of "Ha, ha, he!"

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mottodistribution.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/of-course-blue-affects-my-way-of-shitting.-Petrit-Halilaj-motto5.jpg
u know what man i bow down. this is fucking amazing

sweet fellow - with your eyes wide open,
join us in our chat
for the world is clear and the road is bright,
and life will be alright

We might sound quite weird and be quite the fright
but wait, there's a light -
if you think quite right and you move just like
you will understand us all.

hey, hey, foreign man, from distances uncounted -
hey, hey, foreign man, sit and show your heart.
we'll dance, dance, dance, till the evening sun has left -
and the night will come, and the mead will shine, and we'll be, quite, right.

and ....

_

after many years -

and the sun has left.

we will tell you, how we looked.

we did not quite fit and was not quite lit,
but it was, for now, alright.
HWVA8

GUITAR HIT

SHEKEL HAZAK
VEBALI LIZMOACH
BONE MIGDALIM BAMIDBAR
NOSEA HALILIA
LIVNOT ET HAIR
CHOSEV RAK AL HAAAAATTTTIIIDDDDDD

I dislike reading poetry even though I write it occasionally. If someone wants me to know how they feel write a book, not some short words with meaningless limitations like haikus or sonnet's. I will also accept non rhyming poems.

With all of my strong views on poetry i have probably read less than 20 poems in my life.

I'm so glad you think so.
I think he's one of the best poets alive and I've been pestering him to do another release. His visual art is quite good, but his poetry is something else.

Lol thanks for being honest at least.

Don't pretend like you haven't enjoyed both those things at one point

You ever listened to MF DOOM?

You should read more shorter tales then. Read short stories, try some two-page riddles, etc... It's all about packing extra Information to the smallest possible package, or making efficient use of the space.
The change of one word can be as loud as a bomb, if you listen closely enough.

yo, yo it's me right here -
Mc making a shrill right veer
And I'm up - rather in the manic,
Shill making sea smell tragic
Beer.
And acid - pussy tastes
Drastic funk turns addicts in
Nasty bunks. Never shoulda trust her
If i do believe I do see she is the viper
And ready, strike, life just stuts.,
Russian goes tsk while German gets
Manic - fuck!
Never shoulda met her.
If I'm a fucking man I should have fucking,,,
Cop her,,,, say what?
Sorry, this line is fat and the context pretty flat
You gotta get high if you wanna play with facts
And relax, I really plan a kissa, I'll make her sweet like
Sweat in sweaters, funk, yeah
Know where I am?
I'm mother fucking mc playing around.

Yes. Doom actually has the strongest sense of meter and the strongest prosody of any writer in the last two decades.

Pic related was pretty good.

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Counterpoint:

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>contemporary poets ignore their meter and have no sense of rhythm
What about Alice Oswald, in particular Tithonus?

of course I have, though admittedly I've only seen one marvel movie, but superhero movies in general, yes I like them.
What I'm saying is that just because people like something doesn't mean it's the apex of its medium.

/thread

>lack of rhyme
have you even read "old poetry"
rhyme is the most jarring and unapologetically out of place thing in most poems back in the day
you're saying everyone back then used to be like shakespeare when in reality people were just as bad at writing poetry. most people are bad at writing things in general.
rhyme, classical themes. when you've read thousands of poems that shit is boring. most modern "poets" are hacks anyways, but modern or contemporary poetry is not necessarily bad because it doesn't rhyme (often).

Rhyming is stupid and shitty unless you know how to pace it.
Most people don't.
Get with the times,
Of course classic poetics is good
Foundational knowledge, but stop pretending it's the epitome.
Just because you dropped out of college.

More than any other sort of writing
It attracts pretentious wannabe-expert nerds.
"You have to read the classics" (Says the bad poet)
"You should only focus on the modernists"(Says the slightly better but still bad poet)
"It doesn't even rhyme" (This is more forgivable, since it's to the midwit what a bray is to the donkey)

Read a lot of poetry, every day, for the rest of your life.
Come back after six years, and you might actually have words worth speaking.
You're all so closeted that you look at a contemporary poem, which is already a gay thing to do by default, and you think
"Hmmm, it's just not gay enough. I'd like to count syllables and have the suffixes matching"

Just admit that you're jealous the Greeks and Romans never shot their cum at you,
Loads you wish that you were catching.

>The Odyssey and the Iliad, were written without rhyme.
both completely unrelated to The Western Canon

My wife left me yesterday morny

Mothafucjing mic drop.
Yeah ..
Preach that shit.
Poetry is wide son, it's a art son,
Don't you know, this shit is the crackers,
No matter how you break it you're getting different crumbles
And fuck, I wish I was good.
Compared to the masters I'm a fucking tool,
And a fool, my play so weak, still I try, and wet my feet,
Read different shit every day of the week,
And never quite get it. But somehow getting close.
If I'm a devil then maybe I'm debil, but I wish I could talk.
....
This thread fucking wild, brother. Haven't seen a thread like that in months.
Know what I'm saying?
Like, lemme tell you a personal story kind of thing.
This place makes me feel something else, man.
Yeah.

I fucking love Yea Forums.
This shit is bonkers
When a thread goes right I'm up to the shutters
And damn, fuck, some clever people here.
People that think, people that feel,
But I'm pissed, you know, cus we ain't taking care.
Fucking cesspot /pol/ ain't containing no more,
And I'm mad, Its bad, you can't fucking talk.
With all this noise I feel I gotta shout.
Fuck.
I wish we were better. I wish I could fucking talk to the janitor,
Hey, man, just pop up In a thread. Ill fuck pop a nigga if he disses ye,
Yeah, shit, cus i wanna have a talk,
Wanna make this place better wanna clean up
Wanna plan, how we doing this right, how we making us a sector where we can talk.
.
...
.
...
Being user, is the best thing.
And you can't force people here.
I won't, I'll rebel, I'll find someplace else
This is the place to be free, to fly west
Or easy - just hang in a thread.
Soak it all in man I'm feeling this feel,
But wait, here's an idea. If you do like it, just give me a tag, we know what it means,
And if you don't tell me why and we'll have a chat, you feel?
______
So what do you guys say about an MC thread? What goes on is the OP starts the thread with a ## on his name, so people can't copy him, and he is the only one allowed to talk for a while.
People can post and reply, but the idea is that the MC is the one "on the set", he is directing the thread. He can just say whatever on his mind or do a rap duel with someone or stuff like that, and when he's done, he passed the mic to someone else and then that guy becomes the MC, and we will have to figure something out with the tripcodes to make it work.
Because while anonymity is great, I think an experiment in sustained anonymity will be beneficial - I mean, playing a character for more than one post .

This is fucking Yea Forums! Half of us are story tellers! Yet we limit ourselves to one post at a time, while we could have people at /wg/write a story together or experiment in types of performance. In poetry threads we could wax at each other and write love sonnatas back and forth, you know, or try to talk in the most abstract way possible, or experiment with notation...
There is so much stuff we can do with this image board format, but we need to work on the place and try to install some culture again.

This nigga never seen the abomination today is feminist slam poetry

Sir thadeus rhymes
It's not very good but it rhymes!

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I wouldn't contribute (I have no lyrical talent) but I'd lurk
Be prepared for a flood of replies calling you an uncultured nigger,
claiming that this MC shit isn't a true poetic work
and telling you to fuck off to Yea Forums, if you do.

>I dont think Faust Rhymes either

Read it in German. Nearly every verse rhymes with an other

>rhymes
Oof. Dr. Seuss much?

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