>“It is not the job of artists to give the audience what the audience want. If the audience knew what they needed, then they wouldn’t be the audience. They would be the artist. It is the job of artists to give the audience what they need.” Art thats unloved by the masses is mere masturbation made for the artist.
Moore is full of shit. And he knows it.
Imagine ordering at a restaurant and afterwards the chef just decides to make you "what you need" and it's an unpalatable dish you despise. Who would go to this restaurant? The chef would soon be out of a job. If you can't get your message through while giving the audience the entertainment they crave, you aren't fit to call yourself an artist/writer
Funny, because Moore spent a good chunk of his career writing stuff with a decent amount of mass appeal. He wouldn't be famous otherwise. Great art strikes a balance between the internal desires and thoughts of the artist and the needs of sufficiently communicating with the audience. You can write a bunch of bland nonsense in the name of ambiguity, but all you'll get is an incomprehensible mess. Much better to layer together satisfying story elements with deeper thoughts and meditations. Of course, striking that balance is really fucking hard, hence why there are so few true master creators.
user, art thats unloved by the masses is mere masturbation made for the artist.
Moore is full of shit. And he knows it.
By the way, abrams ran star wars into the ground and it was manipulative derivative trash. Transforners manages to actually breathe life i to the dying ip and get buts i to the seats
Julian Cox
He's not a communist. He's an anarchist, which is less worse.
Isaac Flores
hack writer is retarded by golley ...
Jaxson Gray
lol @ OP who thinks he knows more than Alan Moore about any fucking thing
Art has to be entertaining to get people to pay attention. What you have to say doesn't fucking matter if you can't get anyone to listen to you. So you have to make some compromises or your work will leave no impact on the world.
Luke Rogers
Yes but not good art.
Blake Myers
I don't get it Nothing this guy has ever written is actually good wtf is wrong with you people get a life
It's about walking a fine line between wanking yourself off and delivering uninspired fan service. You need to create a story that speaks to people's experiences and needs. That's all he's saying here.
Parker Bell
OP is right. As a food connisseur and a chef, food analogy is on point. Food and cuisine are culture, art. And if your dish is shit and disdained by the masses, to the point that the only person left to defend it is you, then you failed as a chef. Same thing for other forms of art.
Being a niché is one thing, being outright shit and undersirable is another.
I like Moore but sometimes he's so full of himself he should get punched in the nose and humbled down.
Alexander Gomez
if art does not elevate the human spirit it is pornography
Leo Peterson
What did this guy write that was so great again? That's right. Shut the fuck up boomer
Andrew Thompson
I like Moore, but I think he's wrong here. In fact I think most great artists are wrong about why they create things. In all my time enjoying paintings, poetry, novels, shows, and kinos, what I believe is that artists make what they think is dope. From Homer to Snyder, everyone just makes something they think is cool. Some people think explosions are cool, some people think explosions are lame. Some people think really deep introspective works about the human condition are cool, some people find that boring.
What Moore should have said is that you should make what you find cool, not what the audience finds cool. He would have been right about that. Even if you think what you make is important and can educate people or elevate their soul, that's just something you think is cool.
Almost everyone is so full of shit about what they do. If you go to /fit/ they'll be acting like going to the gym is being put up on the cross, like it's some heroic task of dedication and sacrifice. Bitch, going to the gym feels awesome. Lifting is fun, being muscular is fun, eating healthy is kind of lame but you feel better for it. It's not a hardship it's a joy.
>Food and cuisine are culture, art you like it because it tastes good stop sniffing your own farts.
Hunter Allen
>Watchmen >V for Vendetta >The Killing Joke >The LEague of Extraordinary Gentlemen >Miracleman >Swamp Thing >From Hell
Not one of these adaptations come close to capturing the essence of Moore's source material, either.
Dominic Martin
>"good" art
Value judgments can't be objectively determined, this is like the first thing they tell you in Art school
>Imagine ordering at a restaurant and afterwards the chef just decides to make you "what you need" and it's an unpalatable dish you despise. Who would go to this restaurant? The chef would soon be out of a job. This is a false equivalence because you order food, you don't order art. If you commissioned Moore for art and he didn't deliver what you ordered, that would be closer to your analogy. A closer analogy would be restaurants. You don't decide what restaurants are in the area but you can decide which one to go to. You're also assuming that Moore is saying his work sucks, because YOU don't like his work. That's not what he's saying. Following the restaurant analogy, it's the same as how most people will choose McDonald's or Taco Bell, even though restaurants with better food exists. It's not a perfect analogy, but I think it fixes problems with yours. >If you can't get your message through while giving the audience the entertainment they crave, you aren't fit to call yourself an artist/writer You can give audiences entertainment they didn't know they wanted. Again, you're assuming he is saying his work sucks because you don't like it. He's not, he's saying it's challenging. And I'm not saying he's perfect, but you have a hate boner.
Brandon Sanders
>you like it because it tastes good and (You) like it because it looks good, what's your point? cuisine stimulates one sense, taste cinema stimulates another, sight (and if done right, even hearing)
art is art, stop being a seething little cunt
Thomas Thomas
You're right I didn't read your post properly, sorry user.
Asher Gomez
In the last moore seethe thread, someone pointed out that moore himself said rorshach was meant to be a hyperbolic parody of Steve Ditko's mr A. I think mr A is fairly competent example of what your saying: it serves as a vehicle for the creators beliefs, but is presented as fun, pulpy vigilante action that comic readers want. With watchmen, I think Moore intended a more aggressive deconstruction of the capeshit genre, but most fans saw it as making capeshit gritty and mature as opposed to showing how psychotic capeshit tropes would be if acted out in real life.
>I like Moore but sometimes he's so full of himself he should get punched in the nose and humbled down Wasn't he in a threesome relationship with his wife and another woman and they both left him together? One of the worst fates for a man
Ryan Foster
By and large it is, storytelling media especially have long been about distracting bored people for a few hours. Some just achieve this by being challenging.
Justin White
To be fair, none oft he characters in Watchmen (or most of Moore's stories) are really supposed to be 100% sympathetic.
Justin Ward
>>Watchmen >>V for Vendetta >>The Killing Joke >>The LEague of Extraordinary Gentlemen >>Miracleman >>Swamp Thing >>From Hell All mediocre at best, especially watchmen, overrated trash.
Gabriel Brooks
What makes you say that?
Nathan Cook
Many people besides you find Alan Moore's work entertaining. He's very qualified to give his opinions on this subject. You should come to terms.
Ryan Sanders
From hell is kino Providence is kino Promethea is cute and funny Miracle man is kino Watchmen is okay, massively overrated V is cringe reddit shit
Carson Turner
>It is not the job of artists to give the audience what the audience want. If the audience knew what they sneeded, then they wouldn’t be the audience. They would be the artist. It is the job of artists to give the audience what they sneed. Truly he was ahead of his time
Dylan Long
At the time Watchmen came out, no one was doing the superhero deconstruction trope. Moore pretty much started that on his own.
Landon Ward
And they all suck cope
Henry Smith
General audience cares about good art. Good writing good cinematography good music good directing respecting the audience. That makes magic.
Self important wastes of of a perfectly good human egg fisting their assholes on the page and screaming that they are not intelligent or spiritual or emotionally wisened to know.
How many people willingly saw and liked it is popularity.
You're talking about exposure. And forced exposure as well as co-opting things people like to expose it to them is a way that inorganic popularity is created for a product. It's a major reason why the shared universe exists. I mean, the "trinity" exists to prop up WW. Hell the batman loves WW thing exists for this reason too.
The red pill is bitter. Go get a cup of juice to wash the taste out of your mouth.
Ethan Wilson
Peggy Hill is down to her last pencil. She has no more pencils in reserve. Pencil.
Lincoln Howard
Noggle?
Owen Gutierrez
This reads like a schizo post. I can't even tell what your point is
Hudson Baker
I've taken to using food analogies when discussing art entirely because it pisses people off desu.
Samuel Thompson
this entire thread is pseudo artistic bullshit Go outside faggots
Daniel Turner
>He's an anarchist, which is less worse. True
Justin Gomez
That audiences actually care about good writing. If they didn't, then they wouldn't go see them. Marvel isn't genuine or real popularity.
Aaron Perez
It's funny though, since Moore has backpedaled hard on a lot of his "grounded" superhero stories and has said he finds it disturbing that grown adults try and find refuge in characters that were created for children. He seems to hate the impact his legacy has had on the medium, and he says he regrets writing The Killing Joke because it was too mean-spirited.
Jackson Campbell
I think the most grating thing is hearing actors talk about how important and meaningful their job is. They can't fucking cope with their entire lives revolving around playing pretend to entertain the masses, so they go on about how cerebral and tough it is, and how it changes the world in meaningful ways.
Why is is always a food analogy? Every single time.
Luke Reyes
No that was Marston.
Andrew Ross
How can you contradict yourself so well?
Zachary Nguyen
This isn't contradictory. Fake popularity is different from real popularity
Anthony Kelly
>"Alright Mr Moore, we've created a movie that translates every single word from your comic onto the screen in the most literal sense. We've left nothing out, every single panel is recreated exactly as it was drawn." >"I hate it." >"Whaa...?" >"Sure you've remade the comic but where's the soul, where's the subtext, where's the joie de vivre?" >"But it's a literal one-to-one transla..." >"Get out of my sight you plebeian, you didn't understand anything I was trying to do."
Levi Wilson
You really think people were only watching Iron Man in 2008 because of how popular the character was? And then they willingly kept watching in droves despite your claim they were tricked because reasons? Marvel's popularity is absolutely real, it's just brand popularity rather than individual movie (which isn't a new thing). Sorry it pokes holes at your retarded theory that what you think is good is what becomes popular.
Connor Robinson
I see nothing wrong with what he said. Sucks that you can’t understand.
Wyatt Moore
People dont know what they want They dont even know why they like the things that they like They are retarded
media is not food
Jordan Allen
Then it's not art. It's masturbation with an external medium.
When art stopped being a way to tell a story or make people feel things that aren't just shock and awe and please look at me.... Then it' stopped being art.
Based post, thank you user. An artist needs to fill his work with things he likes for it to feel genuine. Write what you know happens more enthusiastically when you also like what you're writing about. Jay gayman from reddit letter media is a hypocritical nigger. On that episode about the danzig movie he said it was a mess, because it was just an amalgamation of shit danzig likes. Meanwhile, jay dick rides lynch who always puts some shit about transcendental meditation in his work along with a hundred other hippie/schizo concepts he's obsessed with. Which is great and it's also great when a creator does it a way that makes some people cringe. I'm not a fan of the transformers movies, but I would never argue that michael bay doesnt like explosions.
He would be correct to have that reaction. Moore would know that translation involves change, and a proper and accurate adaption must be substantially different.
Hunter Lee
like anyone in this illiterate shit hole is qualified to talk about art and what makes for good art LOL
>We've taken a story about how real life superheroes wouldn't be heroic or inspiring at all and turned every fight scene into a slow motion actionfest
Eli Morris
Thank you user. It's funny you should mention Lynch because I thought about him when writing my post because he follows his nose a lot more than most artists.
I have a kettle that has some similarities to this picture from Twin Peaks 3. I often think about how pleasing the shape of it is and how good it looks with steam coming out of it. I like to think that Lynch also has a similar kettle and thought the same thing about it.
