Mortal Engines

Attention on the eyes, hides unattractive lower facial features.

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Get over it faggot the original books are absolute fucking garbage, so a garbage film was always inevitable.

Eyes are the windows of the Soul.

True, but I blame mortal kombat for this.

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>Hating Peter Jackson

Certified reddit

Me and a friend of mine went in blind to see this movie and we both fucking hated it. I presume it was based on some other property for some one to be this mad over it. Let me guess, an anime?

I thought the robot was a pretty cool character

was the book good or is it YA stuff? I like the idea, but I liked the idea of The Maze Runner too but that book was trash.

It is YA steampunk, which was enough for me not to give it a chance.

Young Adult novels.

>watch maze runner movie
>"hey that was borderline alright, i bet the book is pretty good if the adaptation turned out okay"
>it's shit
>the other books are worse

Yikes.

Read them when it came out and they were still great

Everyone has immediately shut up about the premise after this lmao

Windows are the eyes of the house

you've never read the books

Borrow them from a library and see. I think they're brilliant

you've never read the books either

I read it as a kid and watched the movie recently and I didn't thinkn it was that bad.

Wait this came out?

It was once again a group of diverse young resistance members played by absolute nobodies of worst order who dragged this into the shit.
It had potential, concept was cool, that terminator too - especially the focus on his steel weight, but man did they fuck it up.

>Borrow them from a library and see. I think they're brilliant

Dude I'm telling you re-read them, they are page turners but on the second read its like retarded fan fiction. They are not good

reread the book and rewatch the movie and prepare to be baffled at the changes they made. none of them add anything or do much to streamline the story they just make it bland and shite

yeah and it bombed horribly. Half of me is thankful we won't get a whole series based on this shite the other half is pissed Hackson fucked it so badly

This is the only good YA steampunk novel*, and even this feels pretty shit at the start until he properly starts climbing the tower of Babel and you realise how fucked up the shit is in there

*unless you class His Dark Materials as steampunk, then they're the best. But I don't think they're steampunk

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I re-read them last year they were fine. They're not the most mature books but they're very solid and very well written books. What in particular made them so fan fictiony to you? (and if you say the premise i'm going to point you to )

>It was once again a group of diverse young resistance members played by absolute nobodies of worst order who dragged this into the shit.

And the worst part is this isn't really the plot of the first book

>>watch maze runner movie
Actually enjoyed the movie. It's become a thing in my circle of friends. Get shit faced and watch the new maze runner. Shit is so bad it's good.

Then I tried the book and it reads like a middle school chapter book.

The only other YA books I've tried is The Hunger Games which would have been so much better without the stupid love triangle bullshit, does this series have one of those?

I was just a bit nonplussed at how obviously childlike the books were when I tried reading them again. The actually writing is very sloppy, specifically the part where they explain the experimental food fed to prisoners in the lower levels was human shit

No not really. It's pretty dark and grey for a YA series

Alright, I'll give it a go, thanks user.

it's prose thats meant to be read by younger readers of course it's not Ulysses. I can't think of any meaningful way this makes thge books terrible though. It compares well to other YA books in complexity and themes too. There's a distinct greying of character motivations and neither side is particularly right or wrong in the tractionist/anti-tractionist conflict either. Compared to the utter nonsensicality of plots like The Hunger Games, Enders Game, and The Maze Runner i can't figure out why people pick on this premise in particular as the one that makes no sense

I really can't see what you're talking about. Of course its not Ulysses it's a YA novel but compared to most YA and some adult novels its got pretty good complex themes and characterisation

Huh my first reply wasn't showing up for ages for some reason. Just read the first one the second one is a half arsed rewrite

Well alright I just was exited to read it again and was let down a little by how disjointed it was. I'm sorry and I don't want to condescend but have you read books that are outside the fantasy genre? These books are not great even for what they are.

Checked

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yes i've read plenty of books both fiction and non fiction. the only thing i don't read is philosophy or theology because it terminally dull. I want swashbuckling adventure that doesn't fall into the trap of mistaking gritty depressive themes with "realness"

I generally don't give a fuck about YA garbage like that.
Though I'm still glad another woke movie flopped.

I.E brainless escapism, look you don't need to shit on books regarded as classics just because you like Star wars-esque shit. Upton Sinclair's the jungle for example or maybe the road to Wigan pier or Ways that are dark. They are interesting reads in books without a map in the front and they show Twilight YA shit for what it is

>YA steampunk

Why not adapt Leviathan?

It's not brainless escapism though is it. The world is not unrelentingly dark unless you got stuck in your angsty depressive phase as a young adult. I read Road to Wigan Pier and seeing how I also actually live near Wigan in real life I can tell you Orwell was just another champagne socialist dedicated to huffing his own insufferable shite. There's beauty and goodness and worthwhile things everywhere. Orwell couldn't see that because he was obsessed with materialism. Here's my top 5 books

Marazan - Nevil Schute
The Thousand Autumns of Jacob De Zoet - David Mitchell
Mr American - George McDonald Fraser
Decline and Fall - Evelyn Waugh
L.A. Confidential - James Ellroy

All fiction and most of them dealing with some pretty dark and deep themes but none of them mired in the utter soul churning misery and pontification that is so divorced from reality which i have suffered through in other books.

Well you are right about Orwell, I think Ellroy really wants to fuck his dead mom also David Mitchell is a repressed homosexual. Have you read any cormac McCarthy? I think they are like edgy YA novels

Yeah Ellroy is clearly completely fucked in the head but noy oh boy can he write a twisting turning crime fiction novel. The revelation that Dudley Smith did the night owl gives me shivers every single time even though i'd already ruined it by watching the movie first.

Mitchell is just a soft touch left leaning autismolord with yellow fever but I like his Mitchellverse and the recurrence of characters like Marinus. TTAOJDZ is my favourite of his because its the most based in reality. I tried to read McCarthy but it was the most purple and overly drawn out melodrama I had ever tried to wade though and i'm no slouch at reading. The Road is a prime example of people mistaking utterly hopeless bleak situation with "realness" and authenticity. I don't know if McCarthy wrote it with that intention but thats how a lot of my friends took it. Have YOU ever read any Mcdonald Fraser? his books are often based in history and are meticulously researched but are also very funny. sadly they've fallen out of favour for being blisteringly un-politically correct. The man was the master of the ripping yarn

I just bought flashman on ebay for 7 dollars I forgot that I had it till you mentioned it. Guy at work recommended it. I might not enjoy it as I'm not a britbong and dislike weakness and cowardly protagonists. I don't think its charming to be a complete bastard but I'll give it a try. It's the 1970s edition with the live action cover

Flashman is absolutely superb. The history behind i is completely 100 percent accurate because Fraser went directly to every single primary source he could find and read them all vigorously. Flashman is a cowardly bastard but it is played at all times for humour and laughs and to transport you through real historical events. I don't know if Fraser wrote him to be likeable but after reading the whole series several times now I can't help but root for him. Mr American is Frasers serious novel and the Pyrates is his dedicated a-historical comedy which is unlike anything else you'll ever read. The only reason you never heard of MacDonald Fraser more is purely his disagreement with toning down his non politically correct (but absolutely historically correct) language. The best British fiction novelist since world war 2

had a kek

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This is not marked as YA, so it is not YA.

Well alright, I've noticed that you people are unaware of just how different your minds are to the rest of the world and certain ideas you collectively agree to be self evident are in fact just cultural miasma. Clive Barker's Weaveworld for example, I had no idea who he was and knew right away he was British because he portrayed buggery a lot and created stereotypes that didn't really exist in reality.

He made LOTR

Read maybe the first book when I was like 11. Didn't really remember that much except the basic premise and shit like the big wall. I was expecting some utter car crash but it seemed pretty serviceable don't get why it bombed it was pretty inoffensive.

>I've noticed that you people are unaware of just how different your minds are to the rest of the world and certain ideas you collectively agree to be self evident are in fact just cultural miasma
Apart from buggery what are other examples of this?

t. British

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Well you tend to needlessly other people as in draw distinctions that to the outside observer seem almost intentionally arbitrary. Or you'll rage at americanisms in your books and in the next breath have an American character say "early days yet" or use the word tarpaulin. If there is a European character say an Italian one any particular Italian behavior is never mentioned, ever. Everyone behaves like an Englishman, except the Germans

>mobile cities omnomnoming each other
Why I would want to watch that?

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okay

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>mongs
>wankstain
Female Brit slag spotted. Go fuck off back to your Harry Potter fandom.

Well you did ask, I would say Orson Welles' quote on Woody Allen sums you up quite well.

The entire concept seems retarded. I could not suspend my disbelief for moving cities basically eating each other. Shit is as stupid as the Snowpiecer concept.

Is this the movie that killed the YA adaption genre?

we got too cocky steampunk bros
at least we still have uh the city of lost children. only 25 years old

no, it was dead before, but died while this was in production.

>2
Why WOU

see

Nah that was
The one with the girl in it
The one they didn't finish

In all seriousness what did he mean by this?

what do you think, this thread is obviously made by some self inserting bong femcel
there was some bullshit during the movie production that they made the main character too pretty with some negligible facial scar that was supposed to be hideous in the books
must be great literature

>there was some bullshit during the movie production that they made the main character too pretty with some negligible facial scar that was supposed to be hideous in the books
>must be great literature
What's the connection between these statements?

kek this movie was great
>B-BUT ITS NOT A PERFECT ADAPTARION!!!
keep seething bookfaggots. no one likes you.

>top speed: 0.3mph
>human walking speed 3mph
...

he's just assblasted that people write books for teenage audiences apparently

It wasn't written for teenagers, it was meant to be straight scifi, they refactored it after the editor decided it would be better in the YA market

right cos it's not designed to go fast. now design something of a similar scale that is

Size/weight is inversely proportional to landspeed because the energy requirements increase exponentially.

probably because it's not worth discussing and that post is a strawman lmao

Again how does this make a giant tracked vehicle with a potentially futuristic engine any less plausible than every species in the galaxy being able to exist in the same environment? Somehow a very large vehicle is where you draw the line of plausibility

how do you know alien life won't just be green humans? Its easy to know moving cities are retarded.

>this movie based on a YA garbage novel is shit
Wow, shocking.

because thats a fucking retarded thing to say if you have a basic grasp of biology. Nothing particularly outlandish about a gigantic vehicle if you're making sci-fi. You accept Space ships flying around i atmosphere easily enough i expect but again THIS is just too much for you mind......

it isn't just the engine. another reason moves at, max, a tenth of walking speed is to minimize stress on the structure.

>Its easy to know moving cities are retarded.
Why?

Also presentation, mah nigga. If star trek was all ships that looked like scrap metal glued together and scotty was shown shoveling coal into a boiler to achieve warp speed, star trek would have never even gotten a pilot.

so again, design it to be capable of withstanding high speeds.

probably read the thread, its being explained a number of ways.

but a star ship isn't a futuristic moving city thats past it's best days. You've got nothing kid. Nothing

>dude just design new metals that can withstand hundreds of thousands of pounds of force
...

Right but we're in a time thousands of years after mankind possesses sufficient technology to irreversibly trash the entire planet on a seismic level

Did you also sperg out watching Pacific Rim

>dude what are shock absorbers.

>but a star ship isn't a futuristic moving city
But user, that's exactly what they are in star trek.
also
>futuristic
mortal engines is steampunk. steampunk is always retarded.

the mechs in pacific rim don't look like scrap metal glued together and the monsters are established as being basically invulnerable to conventional weaponry, thus, sturdier than existent animals.

but Mortal Engines is Dieselpunk. There's moving cities, airships, an ancient engery superweapon that draws its power from maybe another universe, and a cyborg. Stop being such a brainlet

It looks like a giant tracked oil drilling platform that has had extensions added on over the years in an ad-hoc manner

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>Dieselpunk
still retarded and just the same type of "dude coal engines on tophats" bullshit.

Basically everything that ends with "punk" is retarded.

there's no mention of any of that gay shit in the book though. One of the reason I (op) hated this movie was what they did to the aesthetic.

>yes, it looks like scrap metal glued together
...

>the monsters are established as being basically invulnerable to conventional weaponry
And there's no reason given, but you accepted it. Yet you can't accept a big thing that moves.

something about robots

But it doesn't look glued together at all does it....

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Everything that ends with "punk" is retarded because they're built around aesthetic rather than any actual content, and the aesthetics are always "x as designed/imagined by a person with zero understanding of x, for an audience with zero understanding of x."

It literally does. even looks like it will fall apart if it moves 1mph, which is why it doesn't.

>this thing looks solid and shooting it with a gun does nothing
okay
>this thing doesn't look solid and its even shown that its really fucking unstable but its the central premise
wow this is dumb

Thats not necessarily true though is it? "punk" genres usually just change the timeline and path of technological development to create a fresh environment to hang a story on. There's nothing mutually exclusive between this and writing a good story within that world

This looks like the lair of a villain in a Kamen Rider series.

But you don't want it to be solid, solid things break. A structure like that you want it to bend on impact, which it does.
>I'll just accept that exploding a bomb on the monster does nothing but punching it with a big metal fist is the way to victory because the movie said so
Brainlet

but it doesn't unless you're desperately denying whats before your eyes to cling to a failed argument. There's no gaffer tape and if you watch clips of the movie no one is commenting on how ramshackle everything is. It's clearly all riveted and welded together robustly

>hurr durr the space alien from a portal to another universe that fires a laser beam out of its mouth is realism i can get behind hurrrrr

best character coming through

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>ARGH A GIANT TANK I'M GOING INSANE NOOOOOOOOO MY MIND IS BEING WARPED BEYOND REASON!!!!!!

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>just change the path of technological development
technology developed the way it did because of a huge number of reasons that are clearly beyond your understanding. So all you're doing is validating the assertion that "-punk" is for people with no understanding of how/why what happened.

Not to mention, cyberpunk, the one that started it all, was more than just the aesthetic. The aesthetic was a huge part of the point of the founding works (the genrefiction that came later being just retarded schlock) where the setting was an oppressive corporate hellscape where computer technology (cyber) had reduced humanity to second class citizens (punk) in service to technology. An important observation because it was literally happening.

>A structure like that you want it to bend
if any part of bends, it falls the fuck apart. which is why it only moves at 0.3mph

That synth looks familiar

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wow you wrote all of this just to be ignorant of the fact we're talking about fiction. Get you autism looked at kiddo not everything has to be "just so"

tfw no Nimrod Pennyroyal kino

>It's clearly all riveted and welded together robustly
except for every scene where the cities move and shit is vibrating and rattling

so just build the structure to be stronger using the magic of mathmatics and enginerring. That thing doesn't go very fats because its not designed to go very fast because it doesn't need to go very fast to complete its purpose.

again the strawman

>I'M STILL FUCKING PISSED!!!!
It’s a retarded anime story how the fuck can you make it work in live action?

>has no argument
So I guess you're done here.

yeah but not exploding apart. Stuff inside ships and planes vibrates and rattles and slides around that doesn't mean the fly apart at the seams

Then why is there a big fucking pivot right in the middle of it?

>grotesquely deformed protag
>literally just a tiny red line on her face

>magic
more believable than steampunk or dieselpunk.

it's not a strawman though. Every time someone makes a thread about any number of popular sci-fi's they don't have to spend the entire thread defending the basic premise from pedantic assholes with literally no real argument

The point is such uncontrolled vibration would cause the city to fly apart.

no you are. You're insisting that futuristic technology in a fictional world can't develop into this because.......well you just don't like it pretty much. This isn't a documentary and it doesn't purport to be factual or educational - the premise can be what it likes and the worldbuilding can be too

science fiction is always built around flubs. Bits that are impossible by all current understanding but glossed over.

The OP is an example where literally every aspect is not only impossible, but stupid and pointless as well.

but it clearly is being controlled to some degree otherwise the city would have flown apart

>again, no argument
... why bother posting?

>but stupid and pointless as well.

yet the book manages to make it fairly plausible

Why isn't there a dvd qith a 4 hours making of like al of his dvds?? Even District 9 had one

do you have anything useful to say. Your entire argument has gone from "this could never be so" to "this looks silly to my personal tastes but for no logical reason"

But it's not uncontrolled, there's shock absorbers
If you drive a car without suspension over speed bumps you're going to rattle something loose, with suspension you don't but you still feel the bump

a structure of that size and complexity either doesn't vibrate or it doesn't remain intact. They even had to stop people from doing zero-g acrobatics in spacelab because just the oscillations of a body moving through air was causing enough vibration to potentially compromise the structural integrity of a fucking space station.

I'm just waiting for an actual argument in response to and rubbing it in your face when you don't have one.

Drive over a speedbump at 30mph until something falls loose/breaks. Come back and tell me how many times it took.

right so it has suspension, shock absorbers on the tracks, and each individual building has shock absorbers too thus it vibrates but it doesn't fly apart. This is not something that is so fantastical it defies the ability to suspend total believability from your mind unless you have an actual autistic fixation.

I don't know what your point is

seemed like john carter 2
nether were bad, just source material and cast has no pull with audiences and a big budget means it's going to be a big bomb that people love to make fun of

The argument is as simple as cities move because thats the world the author of the book wanted to build and it's not so far fetched as to make it somehow wildly more fantastical than any other number of sci fi and fantasy worlds. Thats what the argument has always been if you read back

The design you're proposing is more shock absorbers than engine, track, city, etc. Shock absorbers need to be replaced regularly, because they can only absorb so much shock.

Why, because you spent so long writing it? It's a garbage argument regardless of how much effort you put in. If you change the timeline of course you change the factors influencing technological advance, if there's no WW2 you probably don't have nuclear power.

I mean if you watch the film London is so huge that it just smashes through most rough terrain and the smaller town it chases does shake itself apart trying to travel fast enough to outrun it

so presumably the people in the city replace them sometimes and do repairs when they are needed

>dude the author says x so x isn't retarded!
still not an argument. The point against dieselpunk and steampunk is their aesthetics have no impact or relevance to the story. Mortal engines could be moved to any setting with no significant impact to the plot.

>that blatant "Children will be temporarily separated from their parents" during the processing of the newly acquired people

Gee, it's almost like that was added in at the last moment to make it "topical" with the just implemented detaining of Mexicans crossing the border. My eyes couldn't roll back fast enough.

Are the books sjw garbage also or that was added in?.

>The design you're proposing is more shock absorbers than engine, track, city, etc.
It's funny that you keep posting "you have no argument!" when all of your arguments are based on nothing except shit you make up

What things specifically were SJW garbage?

Considering every inch of ground would be a "speed bump," they'd be replacing shocks constantly.

This is Hester Shaw. She's so grotesquely mutilated that no man has ever even contemplated having sex with her, and in fact she hides her face because most people react by screaming/vomiting when they see her.

Say something nice to cheer her up!

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are you retards actually defending this utterly stupid fucking movie or are you just trolling the one guy with enough sense to call this movie retarded?

Your daughter gets blacked. BLACKED!

yall are dumb as hell a rolling city of that size isn't feasible on earth. so set the story on a smaller planet. bam. nailed it.

>when all of your arguments are based on nothing except engineering

Added in by the filmmakers. The book has London being one of the more humane cities to be caught by where they just make you work in the factories and workshops in the lower tiers. Other cities run on slavery to varying degrees of cruelty. Theres no mention of cannibalism in the books either that really pissed me off as a pointless addition

You have to assume all adaptations will be bad and refuse to go see them. Stop proving the marketers right about the power of brands.

I want her to sexually kill my girlfriend.

Snoke?

youtube.com/watch?v=HSWj5_-F9Q4

again London is so massive it just slams through most speed bumps without really noticing them. Otherwise it's tracks and suspension brings it over them and its size would probably mean the impact is spread out over such a large area of such a large machine they wouldn't really be noticeable. People have caught air in main battle tanks irl this stuff AGAIN is not unimaginable

How are giant moving cities which require shit ton of power, viable in any way long term, ok they destroy the wall and eat everything, what then

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Increasing the size makes it more difficult to move, not less. doesn't just slam through all terrain, the terrain has to be carefully checked and leveled ahead of it so it can move without putting undo stress on the structure.

I thought the premise was interesting but the reality is that if humanity had the engineering and energy resources to make and power ground vehicles that way millions of tons it would have the caoabikties to do whatever it wanted.

Something that heavy would literally collapse the ground it rolls on.

the earth is flat no what

>tom running into a black guy in the first five minutes and grovelling around going "s-s-s-sorry"

Not in the book and a waste of limited runtime for quite literally no reason as it serves no purpose to story or character. it's not funny either. felt very wierd somehow

>only good high ranking londoner character swapped to be a black guy

self evident

>in the books the different between the moving cities and the non moving cities isn't so good/bad and black and white. Both are depicted with realistic motivations and goals and neither can really claim the moral high ground

>every non white characters weird and unwarranted aggression toward Tom - the character who in the books is so well liked it literally ends up saving the world from another apocalypse (especially weird with Anna Fang the chinese lady who loves Tom in the book)

>new arrivals on London are treated like unwanted refugees instead of welcomed as fresh manpower

again self evident

>The non moving cities making a point of saying how they don;t want to kill anyone but London has forced them to and then literally reaching out a hand to help Londons refugees after it just nuked their city twice

In the booth London is destroyed completely and everyone dies with the non moving cities massacring the survivors

It goes on and on and on its all so tiresome

I know that's why I said it was added in to make it "topical." It's so quick and not even something brought up later that makes it even more blatant.

Cannibalism is always the easiest go-to for showing how fallen society has become after a global catastrophe. It also doesn't make sense seeing how everyone else seems to be getting by without needing to each other people. Maybe if it was also mentioned that resources were scarce it would work, but it wasn't since it was just added into the movie.

You haven't posted anything vaguely related to engineering. An engineer would be talking about Young's modulus, modulus of elasticity. tensile stress. All you've posted is vague feelings. If you are an engineer you're a shitty engineer and you should feel bad about yourself.

They stop moving. The movie doesn't do a good job of explaining that the whole reason London is going for the wall is because the system of cities eating each other is in crisis and prey is so scarce some other large cities have run out of fuel and just stopped dead. The books are very clear that to anyone with half a brain the moving cities are ludicrous really

>How are giant moving cities which require shit ton of power, viable in any way long term
That's the point, it's not. Municipal Darwinism is a retarded culture that is on its last legs, far removed from it's heyday several hundred years prior.

Because they're not smiling enough

>dude I just googled these engineering sounding terms I just ignore how they're more proof the premise of mortal engines is retarded
...

>watch maze runner movie
Shit myself in a storm of autism.
THEY HAD CANVAS AND FIRE, LIKE MAKE A HOT AIR BALLOON NIGGA.

>the point of the books is the premise of the books is ludicrous
>meanwhile, itt, we defend the premise of the books

I took a semester on statics in my first year of EE, what's your qualification

>everyone dies
I thought a few people survive and end up developing the anti-gravity tech.

The fact I actually have an argument.

Things people will accept

>every alien breathing the same gas mixture
>every alien living in the same atmospheric pressure and gravity
>faster than light travel
>giant creatures from another universe that shoot lasers
>irradiated creatures mutating to great size
>a ship the size of the millennium falcon creating its own gravity
>telekinesis

but a very large vehicle is just going too far Yea Forums bros

The premise of the books is ludicrous because there's insufficient resources in the setting to support it, not because of the fundamental idea of moving a city.

i thought about watching this because the main chick was cute, but changed my mind because Yea Forums said it was bad :)

The point of the books is that the premise of moving cities is inevitably going to be forced to come to an end. This thread is people bitching that they won't entertain it as a fictional concept long enough to read the book/watch the movie

You don't though
>it's bad and wrong!
That's not an argument

Yeah a handful survive but they are in hiding from everyone and mention how the anti tractionists murdered and enslaved survivors who went to them for help - including people who had been jailed in London for anti tractionist sympathies. Also its maglev tech

>because there's insufficient resources in the setting to support it
So moving cities are ludicrous because there's insufficient resources on earth to support it, but not because of the fundamental idea of moving cities?

>still doesn't have an argument for
>keeps posting

The world by the time of mortal engines by a fan according to what we can glean from the books

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you keep pointing to your high school tier outlining of the cyberpunk genre as though it proves something

>lose one argument
>"oh no, better jump ship to my other argument to retain some of my meagre dignity"
>get blown out again
it's sad to be you my man

Too many oceans

again, the premise is there's insufficient resources ON THE PLANET EARTH to support moving cities. But the books/movie start AFTER moving cities have magically been built, and the magic that built them has magically disappeared, so they need to find MORE MAGIC in order to keep going.

There's no magic behind the building of the moving cities

>can't refute any argument
>stops even trying
but why though?

Literally every aspect is literal magic.

This is embarrassing

not an argument

It's fine, it's got 6.1/10, that's about right. It's not good enough to recommend but it's not so bad I'd warn you off it.

we started developing nuclear power because we were hitting diminishing returns with fossil fuels.

Sure. But the first nuclear reactor ever built was an offshoot of the Manhattan project.

no it isn't

and? are you really going to try to claim that nuclear power would have never been developed if not for world war 2? You might as well try to claim people never would've developed boats if not for the vikings, or navies if not for the 100 year's war, or battleships if not for the civil war. Or space travel if not for the cold war.

Prove it. You can't

ok here we go faggot. Here's the expanded lore for mortal engines that explains the rise of the traction cities

60 minutes war happens in our future, china and the usa have a massive arms race and then use all the weapons at once, nobody knows why the war began
>weapons include nukes, satellite mounted lasers, bio bombs, weapons that draw energy from different dimensions, and captive metorites that show up decades or centuries after the war is over as great big final fuck yous
> america is completely devastated, china is also ruined. the world is essentially destroyed
>mankind lives as cavemen in a ruined world for some centuries, civilizations come and go. None reach anything close to pre-war heights
>the planet is unstable, ice ages, new active volcano chains, and plagues take their toll on humanity
>many people (especially in the far north) become nomads, travelling the world in animal drawn or basic motorised carts.
>These carts become a point of pride within tribes, the leader having the biggest one. Over time more engines and technology is added to these carts to that the largest ones are the size of moving forts (still only as big or smaller than things we have today like the NASA crawler and some of the bigger earth moving machines, their engines are basic steam engines and the like, some even have giant treadmills worked by slaves.

(cont)

(cont)

>These tribes live in the icy north and generally trundle around warring with each other and grazing their herd of animals where they can
>to the south cities have emerged in the ruins of the old world. London, Paris, Brighton, Hamburg the list goes on. These cities share the names of our current cities, but are nothing like how we see them today, they are settled and do not move
>tech levels begin to go up. The world is still roughly middle Victorian in tech levels with a few extra pieces of "old tech" to spice things up, they are often used without being fully understood
>The southern cities become prosperous city states in their own rights. London being the biggest in what we call the UK (though the english channel has dried up and doggerland is above the sea again)
>one of the northern nomad tribes from the north , forced away by stronger tribes, moves south and invades london. becoming its rulers
>this tribe is the scriven, a slightly different kind of human species evolved in the dark era after the war
>not much different from other humans. they have pale skin with dappled birth marks on, wider spaced eyes, extra intelligence, a few extra teeth in their jaws, they don't age visibly like humans do but beyond that they're not crazy mutated monsters or anything
>they are however very Scriven supremacist and very cruel to ordinary humans and their London subjects
>they rule london for about 200 years but their race begins to fail, going sterile until by the time of the books set in this era there were only about 150 of them left in London

(to be continued)

(cont)

>The Scriven are generally arrogant and spend the twilight of their race throwing parties and lording it up over one another and London
>The Last King of the scriven, Auric Goshawk, can see the writing on the wall and wants to do something about it.
>he uses his knowledge as a scientist to design a massive land engine that will "move" london. His idea is limited however, he will only move london in so much as he will use the cities resources to build a giant vehicle to move the Scriven ONE TIME to the Mediterranean, away from the londoners who hate them. Plus the weathers nice (no joke this is how the scriven think)
>in attempting to to this Goshawk puts to much pressure on London and the commoners rebel. The scriven are hunted and killed and their speckled skins are taken as trophy and flown like flags. London is ruled by an ineffectual council of Merchants and the like.
>some years pass in relative peace
>Goshawks daughter escapes the slaughter and heads back north where she offers her considerable scientific services to another northern nomad group called "The Movement"
>The movement are a smaller group of nomads, who survive by being more scientific than the other more superstitious tribes
>Wavey Goshawk tells their leader Quercus about her fathers engine plans
>The movement heads south to claim london

(to be continued)

>Over time more engines and technology is added
This is the point where it starts being literal magic. That's not how engineering works. You can't just slap shit on shit and keep shit working.

continued (again)

>the movement easily takes London
>Quercus turns out to be a fair and forward thinking ruler, better than the old council even and the city enters a new golden age
>Quercus get the plans for the Goshawk engine and immediately expands the idea. He will be the warlord with the biggest "wagon" in all of history. In his nomads mind, If London moves like this, London will rule the world.
>The whole city is torn up, people moved into tent cities and every single available resource is put to work build an enourmous (i mean fucking huuuuuuuuge) chassis to mount the city on
>other citys like Paris and Hamburg watch nervously, they know what the northern tribes are like and theres no way to hide a plan this big. Quercus is buying up literally all the material in europe to build his "Traction City"
>obviously many people think he is mad
>including the other northern tribes and some of the Movements own generals
>time passes and work continues on the new city, eventually it nears completion. 3 tiers high with a Great Under Tier which serves as a garage for smalled land vehicles and a place from traders to come into the new london. Due to its initials this is quickly know casually as "the G.U.T" and later just gut
>This new city is meticulously scientifically planned, with the space for workers housing worked out precisely and things like weight and fuel efficiency all factored in. The city will work.
>Suddenly the tribes from the north unite and some of Quercus own generals defect. His plan is madness and it will destroy the old ways forever. He must be stopped.
>an enourmous army of Kampervans, motorised homes, land fortresses, land clippers, and traction barges heads south to destroy the city
>Querces has one loyal army in the north and it digs in to fight a hopeless battle to give him time to get the city to safety.

to be continued

It probably would have but not when, where and how it was eventually developed. Maybe if key figures had been born earlier we would have had nukes in WW1 and the Fallout vision of a technological nuclear-powered 1960s would have come out. That's the point of these -punk settings, to play with the timeline to change the factors in technological advance. Fallout is vacuum tube punk, post-nuclear pre-transistor.

prove it

>Quercus realises he needs to move NOW and so he does, this means however he leaves every single Londoner who is not absolutely essential behind. They have no city any more and no where to live. He essentially leaves them all on the bare earth to die. This was not his original plan but he has to do it.
>instead of running south he heads north, the nomads will see the power of his new city first hand
>just a side note while this is happening other cities have got scared and jumped into the arms race and begun building their own cities (none are as complete as london at this point)
>Quercus Loyal general has managed to hold the line so far but they are going to lose the battle, there are just too many northern nomads
>But wait, what are those lights on the horizon? as tall as a mountain and steadily moving north...
> London arrives just as his army is breaking, its unimaginably huge. and bristling with cannons and makeshift armour. single handledly it completely annihilates the northern nomad armies. The principle of the Traction City is proved at this battle. None can stand against it
>initially the plan had been for the city to move about and mine and trade for what it needs, after the battle there is much material left on the field that Quercus needs. He decides to open the front hanger doors of the G.U.T and drag it all inside. For the first time in history a city shall eat. The traction era begins.

to be continued

>You can't just slap shit on shit and keep shit working.
Why not?

The biggest sin was the shitty way they handled the CGI and cinematography for the giant cities. They look like fucking transformers, imagine the kinography you could do with these massive slowly moving cities rumbling across vast desert plains.

(cont)

>With London safe and in control Quercus uses the material gained form the battle to expand it even more.
>the other cities hurriedly build their own traction cities and begin to move. From what was Ireland all the way to Siberia Traction fever takes hold of the world, some cities take to the oceans as giant raft cities, one even takes to the air. Its either move or get "eaten" by another city.
>Initially these cities fight fairly conventionally, with guns and boarding parties and the like. Picture big ships on the land
>this is immensely expensive and destructive
>to add to this the traction movement is checked at the Himalayas. The people there decide that moving cities are a fucking retarded idea and so they fortify the mountains and the plains behind them and become the loose coalition called "The anti-traction league", which also has members in spitzbergen, central africa, and on small islands and other places it is too hard for a traction city to reach.

A key part in this universe is that the absurdity of moving cities is acknowledged by many many many people. Basically anyone who can get away with not moving doesn't

>the traction cities rally against the anti traction league and agree not to fight each other with weapons any more, but the big cities still need to eat for resources. so what do?
>municipal Darwinism is the answer. They decide that its only fair and natural that bigger cities should eat small ones, and fast cities should eat slow ones. No more weapons, but they might still chase to you try and eat you.
>so the status quo that will last up until the time this movie starts begins. The traction cities rule the plains (and south america, parts of india, parts of north africa, and even specialized oil drilling cities in Antarctica) while the anti tractionists live everywhere else.

(cont)

>Maybe if key figures had been born earlier we would have had nukes in WW1
You may as well try to claim that if steve jobs had been born in ancient egypt we would've had iphones in the bible.

continued...

>This is the golden age of traction cities, prey is so plentiful that the biggest cities don't even bother hunting many of the smaller ones, London expands from 3 to 7 tiers with the richest living at the top and the poorest living below. This is how most cities are arranged except for cities in the high ice of the north, where the richest live in the middle of the city where its warmest. By this point London is not even the biggest city, some cities have 10-11 tiers or even more, some german cities even couple themselves together to become megalopolises
>times are good, London even needs to build suburb cities to house its extra population, they are given names like Crawley, Purley Spokes, and Tunbridge Wheels (all puns on existing place names)
>it lasts like this for about 500 years, by this point city livers almost never touch bare earth, they are in fact afraid of it and regard living on the earth as savage. To them this system is the most beautiful and natural way of living they can imagine.
>it cannot last forever, prey begins to run scarce, the smaller cities are eaten one by one and none appear to replace them. Towns that once traded happily with cites now have to run from them to avoid being eaten, some cities are running out of resources. In the book of this film we see one that has stopped because of this its fate it to be picked apart by many smaller scavenger towns until some bigger city comes along to eat whats left.
>The crisis only gets worse. London responds by hiding away in the northern british isles to hide from the bigger cities that might eat it, the lord mayor enacts strict recycling and higher taxation to keep the city moving
>he also makes a plan that will guarantee a new hunting ground for all the moving cities. London heads east at top speed, something it has not done in years, nobody knows why. Thats where this film begins

so there you have it.

They do similar shit with big engineering investments like warships all the time spazmataz

original structure will not have been designed to handle the stress and after a certain point, further reinforcement won't be possible. Because every time you attach one thing to another thing, both things need to be weakened to make such a joining possible.

You're talking about taking huge structures and attaching smaller modifications to them. Not taking huge modifications and gluing them onto an applecart.

you know nothing about engineering and even less about fantasy the argument here is not that a moving city would be absolutely possible its that the idea is believable enough. Will you stop sperging out over the nuts and bolts

isn't there no ocean left ?

What technological aspects of nuclear power do you think were unavailable in WW1
Do you know what they were doing in the Manhattan project? They were keeping the parts of the nuclear core separate with bits of wood. They just shoved them in between.

why wouldn't they just construct oceangoing vessels instead since water is much easier to move heavy and large loads in?

You're a fucking idiot and none of the things you say are right, please put on a trip so I can filter you
>every time you attach one thing to another thing, both things need to be weakened to make such a joining possible.
What is welding, jesus christ

Nah the third book is set on Brighton which is a giant floating city

Some of them do but no part of municipal darwism is really practical - its a cultural thing

>the idea is believable enough
It's only believable if you know literally nothing about anything. Which you keep proving to be the case.

The point is the premise is ridiculous on the onset, and neither the books nor the movie ever establish any level of plausibility, and in fact, only make the premise more ridiculous as they go on.

>NOOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T HAVE MOBILE CITIES WHAT ABOUT MUH HARD SCIFI THIS WORLDBUILDING ISN'T EVEN REALISTIC THE POINT OF FICTION IS TO CONFORM TO MY AUTISTIC STEMLORD FANTASIES REEEEEEEEE

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>What is welding
literally melting two pieces of metal to join them together. The weld will be weaker than any non-welded segment.

Go get some tendies and cool down. You're having an autismo fit

This is one of the most beautiful looking pieces of shit that I've ever seen. I deleted it immediately after, but for a split second I debated keeping it just for those gorgeous FX.

>The weld will be weaker than any non-welded segment.
No, I'm afraid that's wrong user, unless the welder is a fuckup
Your less-than-layman's understanding of material science has betrayed you

Nuclear power was a result of advancements in smelting and refining, being able to generate enough heat to isolate elements, discover new ones, etc.

I felt this way about
the Wackowski one with the space werewolf
I did delete it though

>has no understanding of welding
its funny how you keep proving the assertion that "-punk" is for people with no understanding of much of anything.

You think they couldn't make things as hot in 1917 as they did in 1945?
>isolate elements, discover new ones
christ almighty it's like talking to a dog

>has no argument
what are you getting out of this?

>keeps not posting arguments

>man who has just made the argument that there was zero technological advancement between 1917 and 1945 is asserting intellectual superiority

Did the main bad guy(forgot his name) have super powers or something. How did he heal from that stab wound so well?

They had and could work with uranium in 1917. Why couldn't they build a Little Boy bomb, practically speaking?

>Nah the third book
Is it Yea Forums here or /book/ ?

Only redditfags celebrate Hackson.

Shre(i)k was great. But to much cgi.

almost 30 years of technological advancement. feel free to read up on everything that happened between 1917 and 1945 if you have further questions!

You can't tell me because there is no reason
If you can enrich uranium (which they could have) and form it into a core (which they could have) then you can make a nuclear bomb
You
literally
don't have an argument

>Ecofascist terrorists vs aristocratic steampunk war machines
>Cities are giant tanks that go around eating each other and enslaving their populations
>Huge diversity in type of cities from ones on skates, floating cities, even a sky city
>Ecofascist terrorists eventually unite under an insane undead cyborg with access to orbital laser weapons which it uses to nuke volcanoes to destroy humanity in a Pentti Linkola tier fantasy to preserve the earth
>Legions of undead cyborg soldiers sent out across the plains of Eurasia to fight huge cities brimming with missiles
>Mad scientist turning anything he can get his hands on into undead cyborgs
>Suburbs are used as attack dogs to bite away and cripple pursued cities by tunneling underground

Absolute kino setting. Can't believe Jackson fucked it all up even down to small but significant details like Hester's messed up face.

Its more to the tune of so much happened and you're obviously arguing in bad faith that there's no point in taking you seriously.

we didn't even know what beta-rays were until the 30s

if smaller moving cities are faster and more robust than large cities, why have large moving cities? If then non-city vehicles are faster and more robust than city vehicles, why have the city vehicles at all? If cities can fly, why even bother with land-cities?

Basically everything about the setting is
>hey why don't we
>no
>but
>shut up, big moving land city.

>so much happened
very concise
>we didn't even know what beta-rays were until the 30s
That's not a thing but Rutherford figured out alpha and beta particles right at the start of the 20th century

its funny, you read through all of those wiki pages trying to find something, and still learned nothing.

I'm still waiting for the Bagger 288 movie

Flashman is fucking amazing, and I’m American. My dad introduced me to them and I couldn’t get enough. Buy them from thriftbooks, way cheaper

>you people
What do you mean 'YOU PEOPLE'?

while I was watching that movie I got the feeling that everyone involved in the production hated it and wanted out as quickly as possible

Even as a kid these books were trash, I don't know why anyone went in expecting better. What we really need is a Pendragon series.

>muh high school kid is gifted with magical powers and is the chosen one

Wow how original......

>this abject absence of an argument
pathetic

I cited something that would require you to skim through a number of pages in order to find the "discovery." You ignored everything you read on your way down the rabbit hole and tried to claim a person discovering there was more than one type of radiation means knowing what they are.

What do you purport is the missing link?
>inb4 "you have to find out what my argument is yourself"
that's because you don't have one, you don;t have to admit it, everyone already knows

It's funny how this thing is almost 3 hours long and yet it still feels like there's half an hour missing somehow, even for someone who never read the buc(s).

Like I said earlier, friend, its clear you're arguing in bad faith, so all I'm doing is baiting you into making more bad-faith arguments.

>I'm baiting you
Because there's no real meat to your argument

This

>Retarded young adult bs but this time with some London city meme vibes

>young adult bs
Like what?

Is one of you tards actually arguing we could have had nukes in 1917? Yet we didn't because????

>it's clear you're trolling me so I'm just going to sit here and keep responding to you
that's a bold tactic

>not because of the fundamental idea of moving a city.
Which is also ludicrous

Friend, you just went down a rabbit hole filled with "meat" as to why a nuclear bomb wasn't going to be developed at the dawn of the industrial revolution.

I'm not phoneposting so its not taking me a minute to write out every word. So I don't know what you think you're accomplishing here.

trolls trolling trolls

And yet you can't give me a single, solid reason why it was physically impossible for us to have made a uranium bomb in World War 1

I've asked you repeatedly, you can end this right now by just proving me wrong with a solid piece of information

Its funny because I know for a fact you just read about a number of reasons why it was impossible to have built a uranium bomb in 1917.

It's entirely possible, maybe if you could identify one or two of them I could verify whether I had read that or not

How the hell do you figure someone has to prove your premise impossible rather than you having to prove it possible? It -didn't- happen. The burden of proof is on you.

If you don't understand the argument then why even post?

Go read. Shoo.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_theory

>go find my argument for me
Because you literally don't have one

>claim it was possible to make a nuclear power in 1917
>get directed to a number of reasons why it wasn't.
>stick to your assertion for FOUR HOURS

The Manhattan project required heavy use of early analog computers which were only developed to counter the more sophisticated encoding machines developed by the Germans only as a lesson learned from the importance of encrypted communication after World War One

Did you read your own posts? Or know where you are?

Your right, I would never read a book about mobile steam punk cities because I'm not a gay furry.

You need to climb all the way back up the reply tree my friend, you're clearly not in tune with the discussion as a whole

is it just the attention? Clue me in here.

Hold on a second, I'm trying to get this guy to prove to me it was impossible to build an ICBM in 1430 in another thread.

we had aluminum, we had hydrogen, what was stopping us? I mean hellloooo, computers invented in greece!

>post apoc world
>england rolling around on a giant super city BTOFing all of europe and asia
>hugo weaving is the bad guy
>not kino

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based

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There really isn't a discussion. You said something retarded, and you're getting called retarded. for over four hours.

They wouldn't have had the basic chemistry required

Now fundamentally what did they not have in 1917 that they did have in 1945 that was required to build a uranium bomb

Please bear in mind that I already know the answer, our original argument was about the validity of using alternate timelines to justify settings in *punk premises. Since then I've just been trying to get user to admit he doesn't have an argument, he's just saying what he feels.

>I already know the answer
So how are you not in agreement? The problem with "-punk" is the aesthetic is valued over basic logic.

>people arguing what is and isnt possible in a fantasy setting with zombie robots

>They wouldn't have had the basic chemistry required
Please note how you have just claimed it would be 100% possible to build nuclear warheads in 1430.

If you’re 12

>dieselpunk
>fantasy
the entire reason the "-punks" exist is so the writers can just say whatever they think looks/sounds cool happened, without just saying "oh yea its magic and there's no actual reason for this exact aesthetic."

Nah I didn't

Yea, ya did. Nuclear reactions aren't chemical reactions.

Worked at a theater when this came out and the most people we got in a screening when we had it was like 9 people.

>The problem with "-punk" is the aesthetic is valued over basic logic.
True. And because of it, cyberpunk is the only viable -punk. Alternatively, diesel but only in a post-apoc case, and that's just post-apoc.

>Post apocalypse
>still have oil, engines, tools to make/modify engines, etc
Nah. You’re just accustomed to it because of mad max, and one of the faggots who’d call mad max “dieselpunk.”

>so I made an assertion so retarded even I knew it was faulty over five hours ago and interpreted all scoffs/dismissals in response as failure to disprove my assertion.

yes, everyone else is a moron. not you. you're super smart.