Western

>he thinks the searchers is underrated
you should unironically fucking kill yourself

Why? I meant general public not critics and film scholars.

The Searchers is regarded as the best US western ever made and it's known as counter example for the claim "John Wayne couldn't act".

I personally like Rio Bravo more, but The Searchers is the objectively superior film.

Are the Rio Bravo remakes from Hawks also good? I really liked Rio Bravo, the only plotline that didn't completely land was the romance between Wayne and Dickinson.

Yeah, David Carradine played the best character in the movie. Keith was pretty good too.

They are basically the same movie. John Wayne said jokingly when he was told Hawks wants to remake Rio Bravo again if he can play finally the drunk.

I love Rio Bravo, it's one of my favorite movies ever made, but it hasn't as good of a story that it justifies 2 remakes in a matter of 10 years with the exact same actor playing the exact same role just with increasing body weight.

Alright, i think i will check El Dorado later. Robert Mitchum and Jamed Caan that's a great cast.

yeah, doesn't matter. it's one of the most famous westerns ever.

Watch The Cowboys

>objectively
ok retard

So was Debbie Ethan's daughter? The film seems to imply relationship between and Ethan and her mother.

>retard
You know that cinematography, story structure and acting are objectively measurable?

It's underrated by the general public who aren't really aware of its lexistence. It's not even that popular among normie tier cinephiles who much prefer Leone. It's only popular with literal boomers and spiritual boomers (like myself). There's a genuine threat of it being slowly forgotten as the generation that "re-discovered" it gradually die off.

This is exactly what i meant. Seems like most younger people prefer Leone and it also seems like The Searchers is viewed as being racist. I mean you really have to be retarded to call the film racist.

It's racist in the sense that Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness is racist. Both works are definitely heavily sceptical about colonialism and racial prejudice but they are also mostly preoccupied with the weight of these sins on the psyche of the white man, rather than the natives (the perspective of whom the creators never seem interested in showing). The Searchers is one of NY favourite films but even I have to admit that the lack of a full cohesive overview that includes a detailed perspective of the Native Americans does weaken the film. Even Scorsese admits as much. The scene with Sport and Iris in Taxi Driver is a reaction to this problem.

>Why are Leone's westerns so highly rated yet this one seems to be underrated?
>muh grit
>muh non-hero protagonists

not him but for me it's the usual ones:
The Searchers
The Man who shot Liberty Valance
My Darling Clementine
Stagecoach
His cavalry trilogy

I think it's ambiguous. It also just makes sense that they would get together, as that would have been economical for two single people in the wild West. There's a bit of a parallel between them and Paulie and Laurie; Laurie's excuse for engaging with that city-slicker is that she's "not cut out to be an old maid".

>its another episode of "Americans desperately pretend that Italian Westerns arent the best by a fucking mile and redefined the genre".

I see your point but i don't see how a Native American point of view could have been woven into the narrative so i don't see it as a detriment. I think the film doesn't portray Ethan in a good light and the ending is pretty bleak for him. The film is quite complex and it says that both sides of the conflict can be savages. Something like Blood Meridian.
I'm not an American. I'm from Europe.

I haven't seen everything yet but it's definitely my favorite in the genre too.

>The Searchers
Vera Miles in the Searchers is literally best girl in all of film.

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>So what's your favorite western?
City Slickers.

Agreed

I'm not asking for a complete parallel narrative or anything but just a bit more nuance to Scar and Look beyond "nasty stern faced chief" and "fat comedy relief." A scene of tenderness between Scar and Debbie for example or between Martin and Look sincerely trying to communicate with each other (without Martin kicking her down a hill). Again, I say this as someone who adores this film, it's just a little niggle that stops me from declaring it perfect, which it almost is.

How so, shithead?

The shots and presentation in High Noon feel incredibly modern

It's all subjective.

>the absolute brainlet who actually thinks this
Is this some meta-meme?

Some films don't have a conventional story structure so i don't know how could you measure whether it's good or bad.

>tfw samebrainlet
Having or not having conventional story structure doesn't necessarily make a work good or bad, same as with music. However, within the framework the work creates (taking it on its own terms) there are still objective measures for quality. If you don't acknowledge this, then any conversation/critique about art of any kind becomes:
>I like the color blue!
>Oh. I like red better.
>Oh.
which can then be left at "agreeing to disagree" (the most intellectually lazy form of non-thought there is), or devolve into
>No, blue sucks!
>No, red sucks!

Art is subjective. I would like to see how you objectively measure how good is the story structure in something like L'Eclisse. The same goes for acting some people think that DDL overacts in TWBB some people don't.

The only western where John was the bad guy. BASED

The Wild Bunch is probably my favorite, and it's obviously the main inspiration for the first Red Dead Redemption game.

Searchers
McCabe and miss miller
Good Bad Ugly
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
Stagecoach
For A Few Dollars More
Wild Bunch
Once Upon A Time In the west
My Darling Clementine
Rio Bravo
Hang Em High
Shane

My 12 favorite westerns

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How was he the bad guy?

But he was the good guy.

Fucking amazing movie.

I'm older than any of you and Leones films are definitely worthy of their praise. Don't pull that "cineaste boomer vs no-taste zoomer" crap on BIG-D LEONE ya lowdown yankee liars
This. American westerns are amazing but even Leone's turds are masterpieces

Nobody said that they aren't i was just wondering why The Searchers doesn't have the same level of praise among the general public.
>Leone's turds are masterpieces
I disagree, he is pretty great but he is not even the best Italian director.

>The same goes for acting some people think that DDL overacts in TWBB some people don't
And the reasons they give for those views are what matter. You can never be wrong for liking or not liking something - that is truly subjective. But making a claim that something is better than something else is by definition an objective statement.
>science will never parse out and completely quantify beauty or artistic quality
>not in a million years
>not in a billion years
Hide behind the intellectually lazy veil of 'muh subjectivity' as your universe erodes around you I guess.

Leone is the Emerson, Lake and Palmer of directors.

Kek you didn't even reply to the L'Eclisse story structure.
>But making a claim that something is better than something else is by definition an objective statement.
That's your subjective opinion about what's better.

The Searchers is in no way underrated, it’s consistently called the best Western ever made

Reminder that Western =/= Spaghetti Western.
They might as well be totally different genres.

>underrated
Are you a zoomer?

>underrated

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I feel like I didn't enjoy this movie as much as I should have, The Good, The Bad and The Ugly as well as The Wild Bunch just feel more like what I imagine a western should be.
The cinematography in The Searchers was absolutely stunning though.

Among the general public not film critics and scholars.

Please enlighten us with the actual metrics used to determine whether a film has a good narrative structure or not

>McCabe & Mrs. Miller
My fucking man, I'm glad Criterion finally did a blu ray transfer of it a couple years back.

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Because the greatest Western film of all time is a Spaghetti Western - For a Few Dollars More

>Clint rapes some bitch until she likes it
>27 years later he gets raped by some bitch until he likes it

Is there a more kino director in hollywood?

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Because Leone's western are easy to grasp and fun to watch for most millennials and zoomers. The searchers has controversial themes like racism, cruelty, sexism, and rape. And it's a very slow pace western. Ethan Edwards is probably one of the most complex and scary character I've ever seen.

John Ford is utterly god tier, he's like the American David Lean.

How was he scary?
Just curious as I've been meaning to rewatch the movie.

Ethan was scary not because he's a madman but because he's unapologetic about his prejudices.

you're an out of touch retarded redditor if you think the searchers is underrated amongst the general public

R E D D I T

If we say that imdb is general public then The Searchers has 8 meanwhile For a Few Dollars More has 8.3 etc.

if the long riders was walter hill channelling peckinpah then extreme prejudice was hill surpassing him

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Nope.

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How many fucking normies do you know of that have even heard of it?

Leone is the most reddit classic filmmaker of them all

Nice. I will check this out.

maybe stop hanging out with middle schoolers ya perv

>spaghetti shitter
>calling ANYONE reddit
user, I...

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reddit

amerisharts are still seething because the best western movies were made by Italians

>shitalian """westerns"""
>good
They are raucous and rambunctious and distortive of the 1800s in a postmodern sense that is not truly biting whatsoever because it's so busy having "fun". Those that call the series "campy" is an insult to camp. Camp is frivolity and excess that implies success and ruptured bourgeoisie comfort. Camp as a communicative tool allows for comprehensive assessment through comedic deflation. Camp is highbrow that circulates back to low. The Dollars flicks are appealing to the lowbrow and giving the lowbrow what they want. How dare you say this on the 4th of july, too, shitter. Your country will never have a genre to call its own like America does with the western.

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It’s not my favorite but ulzana’s raid is pretty underrated. One of the grimier westerns that isn’t horror themed. Got crazy stuff like Calvary men shooting civilians and committing suicide before they can be a captured by indians.

welp, this is the most reddit thing I'll read today, thanks bud!

> John Ford
> Underrated
I dunno the fuck are you talking about. Last time I checked, Ford is well regarded as one of the three or four best American directors ever, and deservedly so.

This is so fucking great... Holy shit. Based Hill. And look at that cast, what an eighties wonder.

>three or four
Eh, perhaps he's still regarded by some that way, but
>America is by far the richest country in number of great directors
>Ford's reputation has diminished a couple notches in the last half century
I would say safely in the top 30

Fair enough. My previous post is not what I meant to say. I tend to disregard the weekly critical consensus and its stupid trends.

So,correction: I know deep in my soul that Ford is one of the three/four best American directors ever.

Not the same thing, and you are right.

>America is by far the richest country in number of great directors
the delusion of brainwashed americans on full display here

name as many good directors from your country as you can and I will name more American directors that are better

That's not even a little bit controversial of an opinion. Anybody who's into cinema knows it.

No love for Boetticher in this thread?

7 men from now is an absolute B western masterwork.

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Name 5 best american directors and i will name 5 better from some other country.

>Name 5 best american directors
we're talking about largest QUANTITY of great directors. Your request makes less sense.

Oh, i misread it.

Peele
DuVarney
Lee
Coogler
Jenkins

What is a director you would like to see do a western?

For me, shinya tsukamoto.

based

Allen. Now it's too late, but I'm sure it would be fine business.

Post modernism is cancer. Tell me, if I took a video of myself shitting and compared it to Citizen Kane, what would be the better film?

>forgetting god mcqueen
Pathetic

Seconded.
Only fags and soys are afraid of objectivism.

It all depends. How´s your butt? And your braps?

france has the greatest pantheon of film directors and it's not close
and I say that as a brit

So what's objectively better Once Upon a Time in West or The Good, the Bad and the Ugly?

Bruh the good the bad an the ugly isn’t even the best part of its trilogy

There's an infirmary nearby

>france has the greatest pantheon of film directors and it's not close
nah
>and I say that as a brit
opinion doubly discarded. Happy 4th of July.

Objectively?

Curiously enough, although you are probably on point (at least under an "artistic" point of view) for me Brittish cinema is the best.

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yeah

Disagree

You are objectively wrong.

How shitty must someone's taste be to say something so blatantly, disgustingly untrue? I shit on the New Wave. Fuck arthouse. France has like 5 truly great directors TOPS.

You are wrong and also retarded.

He's British.

even if you discounted New Wave (which would be retarded bu you do you) France has far more great directors than America. fuck even italy might. And let's not even mention the Soviet Union and former Soviet states.

Of these Jenkins is actually good, and once upon a time so was Lee

Terrence Malick

he's already done three...

I mean classic one with cowboys and shit.

>France has far more great directors than America.
Can you please name who you consider the great American directors to be? Just wanna check whether or not you're a pleb.
>fuck even italy might.
HAHAHA
>And let's not even mention the Soviet Union and former Soviet states.
You better not be talking about THAT director. You know the one I'm talking about. Also, soviet montage was greatly influenced by their superior: D.W. Griffith. Eisenstein said Snow White was the greatest film of all time.

meant for

Please do because theres a greag Caan scene with a chinaman