What is Yea Forums's thoughts on The Muppet Show?

What is Yea Forums's thoughts on The Muppet Show?

Also, did you know that it ended because Jim Henson decided that the 5th season would be the last season? He wanted to end it on a high note and wanted to pursue new ideas like Fraggle Rock

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Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=HOa_YMOzEGQ
youtube.com/watch?v=4J-d7BfpSoM
collider.com/curious-creations-of-christine-mcconnell-cancelled-by-netflix/
.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp7V62tX6NQ
cinemablend.com/news/2456446/why-melissa-mccarthys-happytime-murders-bombed-at-the-box-office-this-weekend
youtube.com/watch?v=cwBsTWteOGE
youtube.com/watch?v=z0lIopsvkMg
youtube.com/watch?v=AftdZ1EwO-k
twitter.com/AnonBabble

>Defunctland Shill

I'm not even mad, it's a great youtube channel

I also watch Defunctland. You're shillin', but luckily the current Jim Henson biography series has been really good, so it's alright.

Muppet Show was a good series and wisely ended before it could get stale. Muppets Tonight gave us a glimpse at what the Muppet Show might have mutated into had it just kept rolling along and Muppets Tonight was trash, so it was smart to end when it did.

Realistically, it had way too many song and dance numbers, often using songs so obscure no one would recognize them, but it evened out the songs-to-sketches ration in later seasons (and also got more pop hits). Some of the guest stars are baffling, not due to age but because they were obligated to include celebrities that were only famous in Europe since the show was produced in Britain. Rudolph Nureyev? Zero Mostel? Spike Milligan?

It was a fun show that they have failed to duplicate.

Honestly, you can count on 1 hand the number of GOOD Muppets projects created post-Jim.

>A Muppets Christmas Carol
>Muppet Treasure Island (MAYBE)
>The Muppets 2012 movie (MAYBE)
>The Muppet Show comic by Roger Langridge

I mean, is there anything else? I hear the Muppet Babies reboot is alright, but it's for literal toddlers so I haven't watched it and couldn't really judge something like that, anyway.

Yes, I watch Defunctland too.

The two live shows, but mostly because Disney were hands-off with them unlike the movies/ABC show

>What is Yea Forums's thoughts on The Muppet Show?
It's the Muppet Show YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Oh, thanks for reminding me to watch the next Defunctland, OP!

Now will this stay a Muppets thread or become a lowkey parks thread?

Watched the video already there is nothing to discuss unless someone wants to larp hating Jim Henson or puppets.

Why is half the thread talking about something completely unrelated? Can we please just talk about Muppets?

It's weird that such a well-known IP can't seem to stage a proper comeback. I thought they were going to succeed with the 2011 movie, but then nothing came of it except Muppets Most Wanted which wasn't great and the 2015 TV show which I liked but I guess nobody else did.
I remain, as ever, excited for their next show despite a lifetime of disappointment.

Those were just live performances of past sketches, and Disney was involved. They'd never let the Muppets grow and try something new. It's all about milking that nostalgia.

Fuck off, shill.

I haven't seen a lot of that stuff but I really liked the Muppets from Space one. Did not overall enjoy 2012 movie but it had good bits.
I did not even know about the Disney channel Muppet Show since I never had cable but when Prince died that ep made the rounds and it seemed ok. Also it was cool 'cause he did Starfish and Coffee with the Muppets and that song rules and the video they made was rad

How can I get un-edited original episodes?

Disney just don't know what to do with 'em, or don't care with their new toys of Marvel and Star Wars

Nothing "maybe" about Muppet Treasure Island.

>I'm not Jimmy-Jim-Jimmy-Jim-Jim-Jim-Jim! HE'S Jimmy-Jim-Jimmy-Jim-Jim-Jim-Jim!

>the entire roll call scene
youtube.com/watch?v=HOa_YMOzEGQ

>Shiver my timbers shiver my sails DEAD MEN TELL NO TALES

It was interesting to see where each Muppet originally came from, I didn't know Gonzo was a discount Skeksis.

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it used to just be good, now it's become great with these top quality muppet documentaries
thinking about something due to a video you saw isn't exactly a shill
hey mostel and milligan are tops.
a frackle is hardly a discount skeksis

I think Disney fails to understand that the Muppets are an actors troupe, the puppeteers are as important for the show as a live actor is to a franchise. They seem to fail to understand that. The Big Bird debacle a couple of years ago makes it cleat they see the puppeteers as replaceable assets instead of the soul of the Muppet themselves.

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>The Big Bird debacle
what?

The new management forced the old puppeteer to retire, because he refused to train another performer to use the costume. He said they wanted him out because the management wanted to make the puppeteers easily replaceable.

Michael Eisner was the one who wanted to buy the Muppets. He was the one who pushed for a lot of Muppet stuff. Since Iger took over, he's treated them like an embarrassing remnant of Eisner's tenure.

That's total bull. Carol Spinney retired because he was old as all fuck and just physically couldn't do it anymore. He went as long as he was able to, but his body finally had enough. Besides, he'd groomed his successor for 20 years or something.

Your thinking of Your thinking of Steve Whitmire and Kermit. Disney doesn't own the Sesame Street Muppets. I think you got confused because the guy Caroll Spinney was training to take over Big Bird is now the guy doing Kermit.

I saw him at a con last year. The poor guy looked really frail and could hardly move. He was still super nice to everyone though.

He had already stopped puppeteering completely by 2015 or 2016, at which point onwards he'd just do the voices for the characters, and let Matt Vogel do the puppeteering, and obviously now he's taken on the role full-time.

He's retiring after the upcoming season (which has already finished filming). That way he can say he's been doing it for 50 years.

The Kermit thing was sad. The puppeteer made a good point about the Kermit and Robin conversation that started the whole feud. The fact that two of Henson's kids immediately trashed him to the media after firing him just shows how much mouse cock they suck.

>Also, did you know that it ended because Jim Henson decided that the 5th season would be the last season? He wanted to end it on a high note and wanted to pursue new ideas like Fraggle Rock
Yes, we all watched Defunctland last night.

On that note, can anyone make a guess at how many episodes we are away from Labyrinth?

Why don't they just try to make a new Muppet Show like the old one that brought them to glory?
Not that Office sitcom bullshit, Muppet sketches and guest stars.
Bring on Paul Williams to sing Rainbow Connection or something, then throw it over to Daft Punk.

Mupet treasure island was great its Muppets and Tim Curry what's not to like?
I can understand why some people might not like The Muppets 2012 movie but I loved it.

I'm more interested in the Dark Crystal epissoe. And the show. WHERE THE FUCK IS IT NETFLIX

It's never going to hit Netflix since Gisnep is starting their own streaming service and they own the Muppets.

The videos they uploaded from 2008 to 2010 were pretty good

Dark Crystal is a Jim Henson studios production. Disney owns the Muppets but not them.

There's only three parts left, I assume he's going to do a video for both Dark Crystal and Labyrinth, a video for Fraggle Rock, and the final video will probably either be The Storyteller or The Jim Henson Hour.

>only three parts left
Damn, seems like he could stretch it out a bit further.

DEAD TOM'S DEAD! LONG JOHN SHOT 'EM!

I too enjoy Defunctland

>TFW years ago you would have been absolutely ecstatic to hear about a new Dark Crystal but it's the current year and telling a good story isn't as important reaching the widest audience.

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I don't like the Muppets but I think Jim Henson was great. So yeah, not for me but I can respect it.

Iger's shit is gonna backfire sooner or later.

Man, I can’t wait. Also, I’m loving his off brand muppet squarespace adds.

Me too. He absolutely nails the style of Jim's original ads.

>Why don't they just try to make a new Muppet Show like the old one that brought them to glory?
I feel like the only reason they never tried is because they knew they couldn't pull it off. Muppets Tonight kind of showed that they couldn't, at least in the 90's. The format was largely the same but translated into a late night show instead of vaudeville, but the problem was that it just wasn't funny and didn't have the same heart. I think Muppets Tonight taught them that they couldn't really do it anymore and they've been afraid to try every since.

>Hear the Foo Fighters are going to be on the New Muppetts show
>Want to see Dave Grohl and Animal have a drum duel
>They show up int he last minute while the credits run to play a song

WASTED. OPPORTUNITY.

Muppets Tonight was great.

>Cindy Crawford, if you're a suuuuuuper model, does that mean you have suuuuuper powers?
>Of course it does.


That, and what you get when you cross an elephant with a rhino.

>Muppets Tonight was great.
It wasn't. It had some good moments but overall it was full of duds.

The Muppet Show was never funny

Here's my idea for a new Muppet Show

The Muppet Channel
>The Muppets are running their own channel with Kermit the Frog as the stressed out frog in charge
>Each character gets his own show
>Miss Piggy has her talk show
>Fozzie has a crappy Seinfeld-like sitcom
>Gonzo performs daredevil feats on his show
>Sweetums on the Street has the giant muppet talk to people on the streets of LA
>The Swedish Chef and Bunson and Beeker get their own shows too
>Teeth Vee: The Electric Mayhem's very own music show, where they interview/perform with musicians
>Sam The Eagle hosts a documentary serious about American history

It seems like when people today try to duplicate the old Muppet Show, they treat the old jokes and routines as if it was something that a person can only enjoy ironically. I can see why they might think the old stuff was quaint, but it wasn't simply about being corny, it was largely just creatively experimental. A new show would need to capture that idea in a genuine way instead of being an ironic imitation of retro gags.

Because no one was doing anything with Muppets for such a long time they fell right back into the mindset of being for children only
It also doesn’t help that Jim’s kids don’t seem to be wanting push Muppets like he did, that Muppet noir movie seems terrible and a far cry from the concept art which everyone loves
It also doesn’t help that Disney isn’t willing to do more with them because it didn’t immediately make money from the series and they don’t seem to know what to do with it further other then to boast about how much big IPs they have

That or Muppets was a thing of the last

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I need this to be real

>What is Yea Forums's thoughts on The Muppet Show?
I grew up with it when it was on. Lots of great memories of being allowed to stay up "late" to watch it. Irc it came on at 7:30 pm on friday nights. The muppet news guy and Sam the eagle with his over-the-top attitude were my favourites.

>There is nothing stopping Disney from making a full epic series about Pigs in Space, but they won't because it might accidentally be more popular than Star Wars.

I think we're at a point where it's clear that the Muppets didn't actually survive the death of Jim. Yeah, they carried on for a while and had a few good hits (the 90's movies for example) but Jim was irreplaceable. He was the heart and soul of the Muppets and without him the franchise just kind of drifted. There wasn't anyone to really keep it together and as more and more of the old guard started dying off or just not doing it anymore, they were replaced by newer puppeteers who clearly have a love for the characters but don't share that same bond that Henson/Oz/Nelson/etc had. It slowly became an IP rather than an actual performance troupe.

Without Jim at the helm the ship stayed on course for a bit, then drifted, and eventually just crashed into an island and it's just been lying on the shore ever since.

Jim's son instead tried to push his own version of le edgy Gen Xer Muppets who use four letter words.

I think this is a pretty apt overview of what happened. It's like when someone gets hit by a car and survives but with a mess of injuries. Getting hit didn't immediately kill them but decades later the injuries finally take their toll. Henson's death wasn't immediately fatal but it was a wound that slowly and eventually did them in.

>watches that Defunctland youtube shit
>thinks he understands muppets

What a poseur

why not both?

The Muppets really were just Jim and his closes friends having fun together, a sort of A-team considering how well Jim and Oz bounced off each other so well
Something like that can't be replaced

The acts were usually a series of shorts, and it's hard to go wrong when the Muppets are condensed into quick doses. The music videos were basically fun. They could do well at the front of films where a cartoon might have appeared.

They'd probably ruin it with that shaky-cam shit, otherwise you're on to something.

I miss Wilkins posting.

Somebody could learn a lot about pre-modern American culture by watching The Muppet Show. These aren't all just random silly sketches. A lot of the numbers were real Americana. The celebrities were also important, but a lot of the young crowd won't recognize or appreciate these days.

youtube.com/watch?v=4J-d7BfpSoM

It really sucks what happened to Steve. He ran a blog called Muppet Pundit for a few months after it was announced he was fired. I highly recommend reading it. It gives some great incite into what Disney thought of the Muppets, how they went against what Jim would've done, and generally the kind of person Steve is. The blog is now defunct heh, but you can find all of the posts on the Wayback Machine if you know where to look. I'll be dumping all of the major posts in this thread for anyone who's interested.

It’s Time To Get Things Started...

>Dear Friends,

>In 1978 when I was asked to join The Muppet Show, the Muppets were the hottest thing on the planet. I was invited to sit at the feet of the true masters, Jim Henson, Frank Oz, Jerry Nelson, Richard Hunt, and Dave Goelz; working alongside them, absorbing different skills from each, as we, along with many talented others, contributed towards the same shared vision, the vision of one man. The result became a skill-set for myself that was sort of a compilation of the best of them all.

>For me the Muppets are not just a job, or a career, or even a passion. They are a calling, an urgent, undeniable, impossible to resist way of life. This is my life’s work since I was 19 years old. I feel that I am at the top of my game, and I want all of you who love the Muppets to know that I would never consider abandoning Kermit or any of the others because to do so would be to forsake the assignment entrusted to me by Jim Henson, my friend and mentor, but even more, my hero.

>As I am sure you can imagine, I have experienced every possible emotion since October 2016, when I received a phone call from The Muppets Studio’s executives to say they were recasting. Through a new business representative, I have offered multiple remedies to their two stated issues which had never been mentioned to me prior to that phone call. I wish that we could have sat down, looked each other in the eye, and discussed what was on their minds before they took such a drastic action.

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>I have remained silent the last nine months in hopes that the Disney company might reverse their course. Doing what is best for the Muppets is the lens through which all my interactions have been filtered. Given the opportunity I remain willing to do whatever is required to remedy their concerns because I feel my continued involvement with the characters is in the best interest of the Muppets.

>For decades, you have been an invaluable partner in co-creating the existence of the Muppets, and I am humbled by your devotion to them. There is so much more for us to talk about so I have created this site as a place to connect and share on all things Muppet, past, present and future.

>Please forgive any faux pas as I have not been active in social media previously and have a serious learning curve. I just want you all to know that I am sorry if I have disappointed any of you at any point throughout our journey, and to let everyone know that I am devastated to have failed in my duty to my hero.

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The Latenight Double Feature ‘Post’ Show

>“Why Don’t You Get Things Started???”, the audience exclaimed.

>First I have to say that I am overwhelmed by the outpouring of love and support in your comments, from friends old and new, celebrities, press, and fans worldwide. You have no idea how much that means to me. I keep tearing up as I try to read…my keyboard is a mess…. That might explain the technical difficulties that have prevented me from posting. Hopefully things are working and you are reading Thursday’s post now.

>I understand and appreciate your range of emotions from sorrow to outrage as I have traveled that path myself. There are many things to tell you about all of this so in order to avoid writing boring dissertations, I am (hopefully) going to break this into more manageable and digestible bits. Plus, its Saturday and I have grass to mow…and laundry to do…

>Since so many of you have responded to the last sentence of my first post, “failed in my duty to my hero”, please indulge me in adding a bit more to try to clarify.

>I guess I always thought of the work I’ve done with the Muppets as tending my little portion of the garden, you know? But, in the big scheme of all the fear, negativity and really bad stuff in our world it seemed quite small and often ineffective.

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>I would read cynical comments to fan’s concerns like, ‘I don’t know what the big deal is. It’s just a bunch of puppets’ or ‘Get a life! Anybody can do a Kermit impression…’, and there was a part of me that couldn’t help taking it personally because I realized that, in my mind at least, they were trampling Jim’s legacy. I get pretty defensive when people go after those I care about.

>While Jim was unassuming and graceful, he was also powerful in his gentleness and integrity. And those ‘cute little Muppets’ who so many think are for kids were, at their best, raucous, irreverent, outspoken and rebellious against injustice. So, when I speak of ‘failing’ in my duty, a big part of what I mean is this:

>Do the Muppets matter in today’s world? Your comments – indicate that they do.

>If they matter, then their history matters. Being at their best is vital. I believe characters like Kermit need to remain built on the sturdy foundation of their past in order to be progressive going forward. Integrity is everything, and that’s true for the Muppets, as well. As one of the last two active originators of the Muppets, I still have a big job to do before the next group can effectively step in.

>It is no longer the Muppets if core values are lost or discarded. While I fought very hard for the integrity of the Muppets over the last twelve years largely to my own detriment, maybe I should have fought even harder and louder…and, yes, I would have likely been gone sooner… I fear I was the last samurai.

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A rare showcase of wit and talent that hasn't been replicated since and the characters have become flanderized shells of themselves as they've long been written by far less capable writers.

What I liked most about the original show is that every episode was wildly different, every joke had layers to it and if they needed a new character they'd make a muppet for it. Even if that character only appeared once not to mention genuinely crazy things like have one actor be the swedish chef's hands and shoot a chicken like a basketball while another actor played the body and have them adlib when he nails the shot.

The Muppet Performers are not Interchangeable.

>Muppet Performers are not created equal, and that’s a good thing! We all bring unique strengths to the ensemble. That’s why we never switch around characters between us (except to stand in) because, despite all the conjecture, there is actually no such thing as Jim’s Kermit and Steve’s Kermit – There is only Kermit.

>He either shows up intact with all his historical mental faculties at his disposal, or it isn’t him. This is true for each of the Muppets. Anything else is manufactured, and the Muppets haven’t lasted for all these years without fully showing up. When they haven’t, you’re not shy about pointing that out. Neither am I, and we’ll talk more about that soon.

>For discussion purposes, lets split the present-day core Muppet Performers into two broad categories. We’ll call them the ‘Jim-Era Performers’ and the ‘Post-Jim Performers’, those Jim chose to bring in himself, and those who were chosen in a variety of ways after his death.

>It’s a real blessing that the Post-Jim performers are brilliant and devoted to doing the best they can to preserve Jim’s legacy by carrying on classic characters as faithfully as they know how. At the same time, they never knew Jim or Richard, and barely worked with Frank if at all, so when it comes to those characters, the starting point in assuming the roles is often limited to their observations as fans. Now, it’s not that fans don’t know who the characters are, they do; you do. It’s just that our job as the linear souls of the Muppets is different than your job as the impassioned viewers.

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>As fans, you can interpret the characters however you please in whatever way you relate to them. When you sense that something is off, you don’t have to fix it, but I do. It’s up to the Muppet Performers to be purposely maintaining the consistency of the characters they perform. That’s because beyond owners, producers, directors, and writers, that singular performer will be the ongoing thread in the life of a character indefinitely.

>Once even the most educated and devoted fan is charged with inhabiting one of the core characters that has its origins in another performer, it becomes necessary to gain as much knowledge of the interior depth of that character and that original performer as possible.

>The point is that there is so much vital and significant knowledge that was gained by the dwindling few of us who consistently stood next to Jim. From his characters to his methods and philosophies, it’s stuff you can never fully intuit from watching the Muppets. I know that to be true because I, too, was a completely obsessive Muppet fan with preconceived notions of my own that had to be unlearned when Jim hired me in 1978.

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>I approach The Muppets as a lineage tradition. For the inside knowledge-base steeped in its origins to survive and be passed down, there has to be a line of transmission, or you had to be there. For the Post-Jim performers to really understand enough about the Muppets to carry on the lineage they need to continue to be around the core performers Jim mentored as long as any of those people are willing and able to share.

>None of this is a value judgement of any individual, it is a pointing out of the value of historical perspective so long as that perspective is used progressively. Having had the opportunity to spend the last 27 years cultivating knowledge of Jim along with feeling his presence through Kermit, I find myself at a place where evolving Jim’s vision has begun coming from a deep empathetic connection to him.

>So, I see my most important task as providing a taste of the atmosphere created by Jim Henson to those Post-Jim core performers who will never otherwise come by it. My hope was to install it directly into their hearts and minds so that they could, in turn, be inspired to do the same for the next generation of performers instead of the characters becoming stale copies of their former selves. But, as I look around at what is presently transpiring it’s clear to me that the job is far from done.

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Early Influences on my “Business Conduct”

>Jim was in the middle of negotiating with Disney in 1990 while we were shooting “Muppet Vision 3D”. We all saw the toll the dealmaking process was taking on him, but as always he pushed on excited about the 3D technology and his new project. He expressed his concern that he hoped he wasn’t making a mistake because of how difficult the negotiations had become. He was entrusting something to Disney that he cared about, and the trust was being eroded by the business process.

>It was Jim’s desire that Disney use his chosen performers to continue with the characters, and I was witness to a comment from an executive who chided Jim to his face, saying ‘That’s not how we do business. If Mickey-1 won’t do it for what we offer, then we move on to Mickey-2, and keep going down the line until somebody will do it for our price…’. Jim looked horrified.

>During the negotiation of the deal on “MuppetVision 3-D”, our first deal with Disney, two of us, did not close our deals before the shooting began. On the first day of production with Jim directing his first Disney project, a group of three studio attorneys marched into the sound stage, interrupted production, and demanded that the two of us sign our contracts immediately.

>Imagine standing in a line, three “suits”, Jim Henson, and behind him me and the other performer who didn’t sign. What do you think Jim did next?

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>Did he:

>A) Tell me that my “business conduct was unacceptable”?

>B) Accuse me of “brinkmanship”?

>C) Fire me without an ultimatum for holding up his production?

>The answer is none of the above. With two of us standing in his shadow, gentle, soft spoken Jim Henson looked the attorneys square in the eyes and slowly, quietly told them to get off his set and never come back.

>As we watched them go I said to him, “Jim, I’m so sorry to have caused a problem, especially on your first day shooting with Disney…”. Jim put his hand on my shoulder and said, “I would NEVER want you to sign a deal you’re not comfortable with”.

>I miss him so much….

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The Last Few Days, Part 1

>I apologize for neglecting all of you at this site as I try and deal with so much negativity being played out in the press. Let’s talk…

>I was given the opportunity by The Hollywood Reporter to respond to Brian Henson’s statements about me. After reading his words this past Tuesday and pulling an all-nighter writing down my responses, I sent this as an official statement instead:

>“It’s really difficult to be blamed for the degradation of the Muppets lead character on the one hand, while having been terminated for how I was outspoken against poor creative direction on the other. While I agree with the character issues brought up by the Hensons, I am a contract player who is ultimately bound to perform characters any way the owner of the characters directs me to.

>The headlines are now turning this into being between the Hensons and me. With a war of words in the press with the Hensons, Disney executives will never be held accountable for mediocre creative directions that lay at their feet, or for the way I have been treated.

>After literally refuting every one of Brian’s allegations on paper throughout the night, I cannot bring myself to send it to the media out of respect for Jim. No matter how carefully I frame it, because I know so much about them, it feels like a counterattack that might do real personal damage. I am tortured by knowing half the public will think no defense means they are right, and half would think I’m being petty if I adequately defend myself. I am intentionally choosing not to do that because it adds fuel to a media fire.

>In true Muppet-style I have been blessed by the support of the many people I have worked with over the last 39-years, from celebrities to crew, from all over the planet they have reached out privately expressing their love.”

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>I was on the record with that statement and wanted to share the intent of my direction with you here.

>Both Brian and I had unimaginable life changing responsibilities thrust upon us in 1990. As we both struggled to find our own footing in the face of our mutual loss, we continued to work together for 14-years until the Muppets were sold to Disney in 2004. I have had no business dealings with the Henson Company for the last 13-years and have only seen the family socially at weddings, memorial services, and most recently the November 2015 ribbon cutting at the Jim Henson Museum at The Center for Puppetry Arts in Atlanta.

>I will continue to speak about the issues surrounding my dismissal by Disney, but I cannot in good conscience speak against my mentor’s children. It flies in the face of a great man’s philosophy of watching out for each other and loving and forgiving everybody.

>As an aside, if you are in the area go see “The Jim Henson Exhibition” at The Museum of the Moving Image.

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The Last Few Days, Part 2

>After my all-night therapy session writing responses and as I was putting the final touches on my statement, I received word from the producers at The TODAY Show that they wanted me on Thursday’s show. I threw clothes and a toothbrush in a carry-on bag, and raced to the airport. Having done the morning shows so many times before I knew how early the next morning would be, so I hoped to arrive in time to get to the hotel and go straight to sleep. Almost worked, too…but, not quite.

>I’ve done that show dozens of times as Kermit and other Muppet characters, and it’s my favorite kind of appearance. Totally unscripted and completely improvised, those are the types of challenges that, for me, allow the characters to evolve, as opposed to a film or television series that is scripted. On live TV there’s no safety net, and those shows offer a sense of freedom to let a character like Kermit out of the tightly held reigns of corporate control and let him be who I know him to be.

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>But this time it was to be very different. For the first time in my career, I wouldn’t be hiding under the camera’s probing eye, I would instead be scrutinized by it with news journalists asking the questions of me…no fun, but oddly still a chance for character growth.

>I never get nervous about live television because as Kermit the mistakes are so much fun to get out of, but, I was nervous this time. I didn’t know what I’d be asked, or if it might be something I’d chosen not to confront, so it’s a little harder to deal with than a puppet’s eye falling off…although that would be pretty bad.

>But from the moment I walked in the door at TODAY it felt a bit like a homecoming with the old familiar faces of so many crew members greeting me and giving hugs and handshakes. There was Al Roker, one of the nicest people I’ve worked with over the years headed my way, saying enthusiastically, “MISTER Whitmire!…”. What a relief. Thank-you my friends for making me feel so welcome.

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>Afterwards, I walked the city streets to stay awake and soak up some vitamin D. My path took me up Broadway towards Lincoln Center, and I took a detour on Central Park South. Looking east, there was “The Sherry Netherland” where I visited Jim several times in his New York City apartment.

>Many years ago for his birthday, I had given him a tiny little store-bought glass bearded ‘head’ with bare arms and legs sticking out of the hair. It looked a little like a two inch tall ceramic cartoon Jim Henson. The little man would stand up on a surface with one arm up in a wave, and I had made a tiny little half-inch Kermit puppet out of felt using the pearl head of a straight pin cut in half for eyes to put on the little man’s arm. It was about the size of a gummy bear.

>Years later, he had done away with the little bearded glass man, but the first time I visited his apartment I had been overjoyed to notice he had kept the tiny little Kermit and placed him on a shelf with a handful of other far more impressive art objects.

>On my walk, I found myself absorbed in an atmosphere of intense familiarity, as though scenes from the past were somehow happening in front of me.

>Ahead of me there was Jim, my wife, Melissa, and me walking back to the Sherry after having dinner the night after one of his masked balls at the Waldorf. To my left, the two of us were in a taxi together heading back to the office on 69th Street after a long day of shooting on “Muppet Take Manhattan”. Then, it was the day after his death when the performers met at the apartment with the family to be asked how we felt on whether or not the Muppets should go on.

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The Muppet show is a wonder. It's perfect stage comedy with movie stars (OK, yesteryear movie stars now), but doesn't force in lolrandum stuff like now tv does. It's perfect for all ages, tells a story of fun and hope.

Fraggle Rock is a treasure. Which is fitting because it's kept in a cave.

>And then, I had a feeling that made me actually stop on the sidewalk and look around to see who was nearby. As I walked past Sarabeth’s, I literally felt the presence of Debbie McClellan like a ghost from the past as I remembered the many meals we had together over the years. I really felt as though she was there for a moment and was tempted to go inside.

>Feeling Debbie’s presence stayed with me for the rest of the walk. My own wife used to tell Debbie that she was my “work-wife”. I really miss her and our adventures traveling all over the world, working in shorthand to bring the very unique presence that was Kermit to millions of people. Debbie and I would split meals at restaurants after a long day’s work, and our little Kermit team would extend stays in England, Europe, and Australia so that we could vacation together.

>Because of the great potential that would have been unleashed if the two of us had began working in tandem, as planned, I had begun saying to people that the most important individual involved in the Muppets today is Debbie McClellan. That’s because navigating the corporate minefield while making sure ‘no Muppet is left behind’ would have been vital as I leaned towards the creative. But at this point Rizzo the Rat, Lips the trumpet man, Foo Foo, Bean Bunny, not to mention Statler, Beaker, Link Hogthrob and most importantly, Kermit the Frog, will never recover.

>Right after Jim died I had a few very significant dreams where he spoke to me, and as it was then, since October as my mind tries to process another loss the dreams have happened again. I think it’s because I sense that this time, he’s really gone.

>Those dreams have alternated with another recurring one, being in an empty soundstage the day after production has stopped. Anonymous people are clearing out, and there is Debbie. All is well between us and the next Muppet gig is a go with me working on it, then she just disappears.

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Choosing Sides

>“I’m so confused. Are we supposed to *LIKE* Debbie or should continue to *HATE* Debbie. After all she is one of the people who fired you. Right? This last post sure seems like back peddling.”…comment on July 23, 2017 to my post “The Last Few Days, Part 2”.

>I’ve known Debbie McClellan since she joined The Jim Henson Company about a year after Jim’s death. We actually started working together doing publicity events when she became the VP of Corporate Communications and Publicity at Henson. In 2004 with the sale of the classic Muppets to Disney, Debbie transitioned to Disney and we have been working side-by-side ever since. So after knowing someone for 26 years and being comrades in arms for the last 13 years my story was about processing yet another loss. I will never “hate” Debbie, and neither should any of you.

>I want to address this comment because with the use of the words “…continue to hate…”, it illustrates our natural tendency to choose sides. Please hear me when I say,

>Everyone involved in this situation (including all of you) will benefit from simply choosing to validate and support doing what is best for the Muppets.

>Let me try to explain my thinking.

>First, lets be clear on what I mean when I say “the Muppets”. No matter who currently owns a particular character franchise of Jim’s original creations, a familiar looking group of puppets moving around on a screen as a shadow of what they are capable of being is not my definition of the Muppets. My experience tells me that it is important to define them not as a collective corporate franchise, but as themselves, the distinctive individuals that they have always been. Creative direction begins with who they are, not with a business deal just to get them seen.

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>Jim said to me that once a creative direction was in place his experience was that “the money will come”. In other words, devote your mind initially to the vision, and sell it once you have something of value to sell. When it comes to the Muppets, the importance of following that criteria hasn’t changed in my opinion.

>Jim was not only the arbiter of the vision, he was the guy selling it, so he was in the position to safeguard the vision as project financing deals were put into place. When I say my goal within Disney has been to ‘integrate Jim’s methodologies with the needs of a huge corporation’, I am saying (and have said ad nauseam) that ‘every Muppet endeavor should first and foremost be viewed through the eyes of the distinctive individuals, the Muppets, themselves’.

>Does a given creative direction serve to allow for the Muppets to grow based upon who they are? That filter tells us whether or not what is being proposed is in-character for the individual and for the overall group dynamic.

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I'm lovin Defunctland's videos. I'm a sucker for the Muppets (other than that abc office shit show) and have teared up during both videos so far. I really can't wait for the next cause Fraggle Rock and Labyrinth are my all time faves.

I kinda wish Disney would just go with the old formula instead of trying to modernize it in stupid ways. That's why the 2nd reboot muppet movie was meh compared to the first.

Though I will defend Muppet Treasure Island so I probably have shit tastes...I like the songs

>But, even though that is what I worked to try and achieve with Debbie‘s help, executives are primarily tasked with making deals and preserving business relationships rather than pursuing creative consistency. What has tended to happen is that with money on the table, either everyone would scramble to figure out what to shoot, or a disproportionate part of the creative direction was placed in the hands of well-meaning folks (outside the Muppet team) who had limited or no experience of the characters.

>Commonly the earliest stage of involvement for those of us having the most character experience was after commitments were made to business partners, meaning no input at the conceptual stages. Just as was the case with Jim’s core circle, I advocated for a very small team within The Muppets Studio made up of the most experienced people who, alongside the executives, would determine the merit of every proposed Muppet direction before creative control became something to negotiate with business partners.

>On numerous projects with numerous executives over the years, I expressed the need for executive support for character integrity if projects were to succeed. In my opinion, while negotiating business partnerships, any executives overseeing The Muppets Studio should have always reserved final creative control over the brand they are charged with protecting. After all, within Disney they are the guardians of that integrity. There’s a whole manual devoted to what you can and cannot do with Mickey Mouse, but from my viewpoint no one stands up for the Muppets if it constrains a deal.

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>So, what I feel is not hate, it is extreme disappointment that, as the leaders of The Muppets Studio, the key executives were not braver in their convictions in standing up and protecting the Muppets over the many character issues that they were agreeing with me and the other performers on behind the scenes in our last failed project. That left someone like me to do it, or it would never have been done at all.

>Bob Iger is quoted as having said, “I think it is important for people who are given leadership roles to assume that role immediately.” So during the two years prior to my dismissal with continued assurances that my being made a creative producer was just a formality, that‘s exactly what I did. I think you can imagine how it might feel to be terminated for doing what the executives asked me to do, give notes, something they should have been doing more stringently themselves, in my opinion.

>Jim used to watch movies with the audio turned off in order to see how effective the visuals were at conveying the story. He taught me to squint once in a while when watching playbacks of our work in order to get a less detailed overall impression of the composition of things. This was reflected in his general view of life, too. If we step back far enough we will see more and more of the composition of the big picture.

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>From that larger perspective, none of this is about my job, any alternate puppeteer’s opportunity, Disney’s franchise, the executives, or you, the fans, as separate considerations. If you don’t walk away with any other thought after reading anything I’ve written, please keep this one idea in your mind:

>In the big picture, it is not unsupportive of any individual or entity to choose on the side of what is best for the Muppets, themselves, to insure that they have their best chance to go on as a solid, viable ensemble made up of fully intact individuals.

>Every problem has a solution. The Muppets that you love and remember are what’s at stake. For them to continue as they have over the last 13 years under Disney’s watch, slowly becoming more shallow as they are stripped of their depth is, for me, “unacceptable business conduct“, and it’s why it’s not time for me to let this go yet. For me, there is only one side to choose, the Muppets.

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High Noon

>Actions taken only to benefit oneself without due objectivity will never be what is best for the Muppets, in my opinion. But, if we practice using empathy in giving consideration to how our actions effect the larger reality, though our own personal interests may sometimes be served in the process, the actions we take are for the benefit of as many involved parties as possible.

>Rather than speak up for Jim Henson‘s living Muppet legacy, the Muppets themselves, it would have been far easier over the years for me to have taken a passive stance by just doing the job, collecting my check, and going home. That is, in fact, what many have done.

>Being detached saves the hard work of having to orient oneself to a big picture view of why things are going poorly right before your eyes, while profiting as much as possible until it all goes away. That, in my opinion, is exploitation without responsibility.

>But in the face of recognizing real issues that are life or death for the Muppets, themselves, and how they impact everyone in the long term, I can never be that indifferent. Taking a position of neutrality versus actively working to understand what is endangered is the difference between being self-serving or being all-serving.

>In the big picture, the recasting of Kermit, Rizzo, Lips, and all the other established characters I performed is about far more than my job, or opportunities for other puppeteers. It‘s about much more than Disney’s executives or the profitability of a franchise, or even the fans. This is about all of those things collectively, about people having a complete understanding of what’s best for the Muppets, themselves, and why. It’s about what will give the family of characters we all love their best advantage in maintaining the kind of longevity they have managed for the last sixty years by protecting and nurturing them in the most conscientious manner.

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>After the last few weeks I find myself disillusioned. As I look around at the ‘hard core’ fan sites where I have always believed the Muppet’s most discriminating and discerning fans hang out, I read the gist being ‘Last week was a bad week, but it’s all over now, so let’s forget it all, move on and support the Muppets…’.

>What does that mean? What I believe fans need to understand is that to think it is supportive of the Muppets – the individual entities, not the franchise – to be neutral over nonessential recasting is to take no position of support for them at all.

>The strength of the ensemble of Muppet Performers at the end of the ABC series was at the highest point I have witnessed in decades. While I believe there is still work to be done to faithfully be on track with certain core characters in the hands of the newer performers, every performer across the board was sharp, competent, and on point despite the dictates of the show.

>This newly achieved balance of diversity in performances which has been missing for so many years is now in jeopardy as too many characters are interpreted by too few performers. If rumors are true and characters are being tossed in the air to land on the arms of others just so Matt can be in Kermit, every principle of keeping the Muppets consistent (including Jerry Nelson‘s wishes for his characters) is being thrown out the window by the very people who claim to take the responsibility of protecting the integrity of the characters seriously.

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>This is precisely the same mentality that we were met with back in 2004. It marks the end of an era, a change that puts to an end what is perhaps the most essential of Jim‘s work methods and ethics, an ongoing singular performer as the soul of each of the Muppets so that the character, in turn, remains an ever evolving individual. What is at stake here is continuity, and once gone it is irreplaceable.

>None of you should ever have to even think about this stuff. You should just be able to enjoy watching the Muppets. All this other detail is the responsibility of the Muppet Performers, not yours, but at this point there is no one left who will put everything on the line to stand up for who the Muppets are.

>Again, it is not being unsupportive of any single person or entity involved to support doing what is best for the Muppets, themselves. In my second post I posed the question, “Do the Muppets matter?“. Neutrality indicates that for many they don‘t, because it says consistency is not worth defending.

>I have in my hands a definitive project that I am certain will turn the Muppets around. It was born in the minds of those who know the Muppets best, and was to be pitched to The Muppets Studio the next time I was in Los Angeles. But, as things presently stand because of my dismissal it will never be produced.

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>So I challenge The Walt Disney Company to restore the ensemble and give me an unencumbered shot with all the financial backing given to all the others over the years to see if my vision for the Muppets is viable.

>It‘s the one course that has never been allowed an opportunity, to try to involve as many of the Jim-era creatives and performers who have been left out over the years in order to recreate the atmosphere in which I was mentored. This would not only serve the Muppets, it would be invaluable to the post-Jim performers. No one has tried a performer led initiative and I am confident I can make a difference.

>The worst case scenario is that it does not revitalize the franchise any more than the many initiatives already tried by others, but in my opinion, it would give the Muppets their best chance to remain faithful to who they are. Best case, it is the Muppets again, and we can continue forward to instill the spirit of the legacy in future generations of performers, while giving the fans works that are meaningful to them because they represent the heart of the Muppets. That can only serve the interests of Disney, as well.

>And while it could be viewed as a purely self-centered perspective, I think my choosing my replacements is in the best interest of the Muppets, themselves, especially for those characters I originated. So far, I have not met this person (or persons) yet. I always liked to imagine somewhere out there is a 10-year old kid inspired by the Muppets, our paths would cross, and the dream would continue.

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Understudies

>“When we arrived at Disneyworld for our week of training…some Disney puppeteer…was in charge of the Muppeteer training. This, I thought was a very odd choice indeed! I looked around and thought; “Where are Steve, Eric, Bill or Dave?“…comment by Gabriel Velez on July 30, 2017 to my post “High Noon”.

>Gabe and I worked together in the early 80’s, “Muppets Take Manhattan”, if memory serves. It’s great to hear from someone who was at those understudy auditions back in 2006. You’re right that the four of us were not there.

>An understudy is defined as a performer who learns the role of another in order to serve as a replacement if necessary. It is common practice in live theatre where it is imperative that ‘the show must go on’.

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>But, imagine that you’re binge watching one of your favorite NetFlix series, say, “House of Cards” as an example. After a couple of episodes when you’re really into it, show three opens with Robin Wright addressing camera as “Claire Underwood”. She delivers her lines and at the end says to her off camera husband, “How was that, Frank?”. They cut to ‘Frank‘ for his reply, but instead of being Kevin Spacey, it’s his understudy…or maybe even Currie Graham…

>The point is that the actors in your favorite film or television show don’t have understudies. That’s because just like in real life, it makes no sense to try and pass off an established individual as being another individual. The Muppets are individuals behind that fuzzy exterior, not a role, so substitutes never work.

>To my knowledge, at no time did Jim hire or train a single puppeteer for the purpose of them being a second Kermit, or Miss Piggy, or Fozzie Bear, or any of the rest. As with Gabriel, he would bring in new performers to work with us when he could and would encourage them to develop their own characters, but new talent was never brought in for the purpose of finding/training understudies. If they had been, there would not have been such concern about the Muppets going forward after Jim died because an understudy would have stepped right in.

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There's certainly a place for that, and it's called Avenue Q.

>On the rare occasion during Muppet production when a replacement is necessary because an established performer was unavailable to perform their character, we use a “stand-in”. This was a big part of what I did when I first joined the Muppets. The stand-in manipulates the puppet, usually with some specific instructions from the established performer, and the voice would either be pre-recorded by the established performer ahead of time if possible making it a simple lip-sync job, or dubbed after the fact. In no case have we simply had someone else fully perform a character, voice and puppetry, along with character interpretation, with the intention of that performance being final.

>Back in 2004 when Disney bought the characters, within moments of first meeting the key executive of what was then called “The Muppets Holding Company”, he enthusiastically announced his intention to have six to twelve puppeteers perform each character so that they could be all over the world at the same time…

>I…WE were stunned. Characters with all the history and depth of each of the Muppets would be reduced to a list of traits that a dozen different puppeteers would be trained to execute, like little Muppet clones who never step out of line and never grow.

>By the way, training understudies is an entirely different issue than training theme park puppeteers to manipulate the Muppets for the parks. Both are training, but for different purposes. For the record, the Muppet Performers have been to DisneyWorld numerous times to work with the theme park puppeteers in connection with two parades and most recently in September 2016 for the “The Muppets Present…Great Moments In American History”.

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>My goal has always been that a visitor to a Disney theme park isn‘t thinking of Kermit or Piggy as the ‘theme park versions’. The experience should leave them believing that they just viewed the actual one and only Kermit and Miss Piggy. In other words, the characters in those theme park shows need to appear as though they were being performed by Steve and Eric, etc.

>So highly skilled puppeteers are replicating our movements which they learn at these training sessions and lip-syncing to pre-recorded tracks, meaning the character performance is set by the Muppet Performers and remains faithful to the Muppets, themselves instead of having three different interpretations of the characters during a day at the theme park as the shift changes. This is the best solution to integrate the business needs of a character presence in the parks while remaining faithful to the individuality of the Muppets since it would never be practical for the Muppet Performers to be available for daily theme park shows. But, I digress…

>Again, Jim never had understudies and it remained that way until the characters were sold to Disney. The word ‘understudy’ only crept into the dialogue in response to a term I began using called ‘multicasting’. Multicasting refers to having multiple puppeteers perform a character simultaneously in the world, a direction the core performers were adamantly against because anytime any of the Muppets are divided into multiple versions they grow in different directions and it reduces their depth. I compared it to making a copy of an analog video tape for those of you old enough to remember VHS. With every subsequent copy the image becomes more difficult to recognize.

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>The four of us agreed we could not follow this course in good conscience so we did not advocate for or support the ‘understudy initiative’. We knew that the puppeteers who were being offered what seemingly sounded like the opportunity of a lifetime, were in fact going to end up being a part of an effort to mass market the Muppets at the expense of who they are. Big mistake, in my opinion.

>None of the Muppet Performers, including me, has ever to my knowledge turned down any appearance of any size. I have consistently advocated that it is imperative in marketing a franchise of puppets in today‘s world for every Muppet character to always show up fully intact with no exceptions at every type of appearance. That means it must be the singular established performer for ribbon cuttings, feature films and everything in between. Nothing can take the place of the genuine article.

>Thankfully, after fans speaking out and a change of executives, the multicasting idea was sidelined as they saw the merit of a singular performer, singular Muppet. So none of us trained understudies because it was a corporate concept that was foreign to the standard working practice of the Muppets and was, in my opinion, being implemented to service multicasting. If this is part of my unacceptable business conduct, then I guess Eric, Bill and Dave have marks beside their names as well.

>Take a look at Nicholas Napoli’s post of the Understudy Training. This video was never shown to the four core performers at that time, and this is the first time I have become aware of its existence. It is too ‘produced’ to simply be someone’s home video. What is shown here brings into question the judgement of executives when they move forward with corporate initiatives that do not take into account what is best for the Muppets

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This guy gets it.

Doing What is Best for The Muppets, Part 1

>“I just wanna bring up something that hasn’t been brought up yet. I really hope there’s no bad blood between you and Matt Vogel. I hope you and Matt are still very good friends”….comment by Anthony Thompson on July 12, 2017 at 7:23 PM

>I am going back to this question from Anthony because I think it’s one of the most relevant topics to clarify.

>I don’t consider myself an accomplished writer. When I do write things like this, I usually try and sum up my feelings along with the point of the note in the final paragraph. But for this, I want to sum up a point right here before I go any further:

>I sincerely love Matt Vogel.

>I became aware of Matt from Caroll Spinney, who had agreed to allow Matt to begin taking on some of the load as Big Bird. As Caroll and I discussed the issue of multiple performers for established individual Muppet characters, he expressed to me his trust for Matt because Matt would always speak with him about any request from producers before agreeing to perform in Caroll’s stead. It was from that level of respect for Caroll I perceived Matt to be a principled gentleman who understood the depth of the Muppets.

>After working together on Sesame Street, I suggested to The Muppets Studio that we begin including Matt in our Muppet work, a hard sell with executives who didn’t immediately see the value of paying to bring a guy they didn’t know to Los Angeles, and paying him to assist when there are talented puppeteers in L.A. That’s true, of course, but it seemed to me that wasn’t the point. With Matt, I had a feeling he would be a good fit within our core group as he had already been working with both Eric and I for years on Sesame Street.

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>At first, Matt’s working with us was conditioned upon him having to pay his own way to Los Angeles. That’s a pricey proposition for a guy with a family the size of a ball team to feed, and what does it say about how he is being valued? I advised him not to do it, and, thanks to the efforts of Debbie McClellan, there was eventually an opportunity (big enough budget) where Matt could join us for a number of projects while being treated from the start with the kind of respect inherent within the Muppets.

>In my opinion, after having lost Richard Hunt, and with Jerry Nelson’s retirement, a longtime issue plaguing the quality of our work was the passing around of most of their characters to pretty much any puppeteer who had been hired for the particular project. The understudy (multi-casting) initiative only seems to have focused on understudies for Kermit, Piggy, Fozzie, Gonzo and Animal unless I missed something on the video.

>Essentially treated as background, great characters like Floyd, Robin, Scooter, and Janice were hardly used at all, or had become shallow impressions of the originals, often way off the mark and left to be reinterpreted for every appearance by well-meaning puppeteers who had no idea who the characters were. That’s because many of those performers had no tangible connection to the original performers of those characters.

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>It was clear to me that if those characters were to continue to evolve and to once again be viable, it was vital for them to be permanently recast and assigned to a singular individual performer. Not just any performer, but the right performer, indefinitely.

>As I’ve said before, I firmly stand by the notion that what is best for the Muppets is to treat them like a lineage tradition in which direct interaction with an originator allows for the tradition to continue progressively. Otherwise, it’s likely to end up being stale impersonations.

>After abandoning the multi-casting initiative in 2006, recasting Richard and Jerry’s characters was not a high priority for executives as we had no significant work projects slated. In February 2008, Debbie and I coordinated a trip to NY to meet with Jerry Nelson, two possible candidates who had worked with Jerry for years, and David Rudman who Jerry and I both agreed would have been Richard’s choice for Scooter. This session gave him a chance to read as Janice to Jerry’s Floyd. It worked!

>We don’t have a well produced video of that event. I hauled my own personal video camera to New York on my smaller private jet (Delta MD-88) with 148 of my close personal friends and I outrageously demanded a hotel room for the night so that I did not have to wander the streets…We all volunteered our time to get this right, once and for all, because it matters.

>The key factor in all of this was the inclusion of Jerry Nelson to make the final choice as to who would continue the characters he originated. I’m proud that with Debbie’s help we were able to facilitate this casting session and I was able to give Jerry the gift of choosing his heir apparent before we lost him.

>…to be continued…

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Doing What is Best for The Muppets, Part 2

>Matt and I have had a few discussions on the topics of understudies, recasting, and simultaneous multiple performers for the Muppets over the years. I have seen him literally close his eyes, grit his teeth, and clinch his fists in reaction to the very way Disney has handled this present situation of recasting. We both know the importance of the duty entrusted to us by the originators of these characters.

>As an ally during the production of the recent series, Matt and I found ourselves conferring and agreeing on the many character and story issues along with all the other core performers. We would often meet on our day off to brainstorm solutions to these character related issues. Our ensemble was strongly aligned.

>Back in October 2016, Matt and I spoke privately after he and the other core performers had been informed of my termination. Evidently, when they were told, Matt is the one who spoke up and asked, “Well, did you give him an ultimatum?”…They were told ‘no’. As he and I spoke that day, he was stunned and largely without words on the phone.

>All of that once again said to me that Matt got it. He understood how crucial it is for these characters not to be unnecessarily recast or multicast, both of which, in essence, derive from the same corporate mentality.

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>I still love Matt and I believe he already has his assignment. I believe he is the perfect choice to have stepped into the numerous characters of the man he had a relationship with and who chose him – that’s Jerry Nelson.

>Matt was truly outstanding as Uncle Deadly, a perfect evolution of that character and, by far, my favorite character on the ABC show. Every time there was a scene between Deadly and Kermit I was gleeful throughout the day. And with good, faithful, character-based scripts, Matt would have continued growing into Floyd, Robin, Lew Zealand, and Crazy Harry. Very exciting for him and for the group.

>I have always considered Matt to have so much integrity and commitment to the consistency of the characters. I still regard him that way, but this recast decision will require him to abandon the long list of inherited characters most of the time just as I had to do with Rizzo, Foo Foo, Bean Bunny, and Lips. That’s a big mistake because Jerry’s core characters will be back to being done by stand-ins, or suffer their own recasting yet again, this time without Jerry’s input.

>Inside and outside the Muppets, Matt is a stand-up guy (very much like Jerry) that I have been proud to call my brother. I am having trouble understanding his support of the recast, but in trying to empathize with where he finds himself, the best I have come up with is that with my dismissal, some in the core ensemble of performers will have become fiercely protective of the chemistry within the group.

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Well said.

>An ‘outsider’ could be seen as a threat to things running smoothly, especially when that outsider is reinterpreting the brand’s lead character. So, ‘keep it in the family’, maybe?…Put in the same position, that’s not what I would have chosen to do. For the sake of the Muppets and the ensemble, if anyone of the other core performers had been dismissed in this manner, I would still be doing everything I could to see this decision reversed.

>Still, we don’t need ‘Team Steve’ versus ‘Team Matt’. That not what’s best for the Muppets, for the fans, for Matt, or for me. What needs to occur is insistence upon doing what’s best for the Muppets, themselves, by supporting the diversity that was our ensemble, but with me having been eliminated no one left is in a position to be radically honest and still keep their jobs. It’s out of their hands.

>Restoration of our core remains what will ultimately serve all involved. So at two and a half weeks out from the Hollywood Bowl show, I‘ll offer the same thing I did to executives who chose to replace us on other appearances that did not succeed.

>I can be up to speed and ready for this show with little more than a day‘s rehearsal. Restoring the integrity of the core team will give this show all the depth and authenticity that is inherent to each of the Muppets, and as offered in the past, I‘ll even do it for free because, in my opinion, keeping the 2016 ensemble whole and intact is by far what is best for the Muppets going forward.
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And that's it! I hope you guys enjoyed the read.

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Fascinating read. Thanks for sharing!

Really appreciate you doing this

>Though I will defend Muppet Treasure Island so I probably have shit tastes
There is literally nothing wrong with Muppet Treasure Island

>guest stars
Lol it’ll just be c-list Disney channel kids, the fat kid from Modern Family & Whoopi Goldberg. They’d never shell out the bucks for Daft Punk

I fucking loved Muppet Treasure Island

This is fascinating background information. I didn't know any of this.

Let me dream of robot muppets.

Thank you for posting all of that. I was aware of Steve’s blog but wasn’t aware that he’d posted more than a couple of times.

Any other anons ITT involved in puppetry at all? I want to start building them but don’t know where to start.

>the best recent muppet sketch came from trashy idol anime

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Being big bird is physically demanding. Guy fucking spent 50 plus years with his arms in unnatural positions, his rotatory cuff is no doubt no existent by this point, on top of being 85 fucking years old. Some people like to retire and just enjoy their final years rather than die inside of a muppet.

thank you for personally speaking for the big bird actor your white knighting is appreciated

20 years ago I remember him saying in an interview that its demanding, hot, hard to move. I didn't know why people think this guy should just work until they have to wash his corpse out of the big muppet.

They kind of did that with Lady Gaga. Don’t know why they never did more. I don’t think a series would take hold, but one-off specials set on The Muppet Show could.

>Muppets Tonight was great
C'mon man, it was awful. Especially all those new characters they introduced who weren't funny in the slightest. I can't stand the fact that Pepe the Prawn is still around and considered one of the central Muppet characters. he fuckin sucks.

Thank you

It's only a parks thread if you want to talk about Muppet*Vision 3D.

I enjoyed the 2015 Muppets series. It was laid back and enjoyable, with some surprisingly great humor.

Kinda sad they only got one season.

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I wouldn't attach a "maybe" to Treasure Island or the 2012 movie, personally, but yeah, even if you were to take that list and throw in a "Well, SOME people liked it!" to bulk it up, like Most Wanted or the recent Muppets TV series that got Steve Whitmire fired... What is that? SIX decent to good Muppets projects in the past 28 years?

That's terrible.

>Zero Mostel

Zero Mostel was on the original Fiddler on the Roof broadway show, was a celebrated avtor who even won two Tony awards. He was on Mel Brooks' the Producers. Hardly fucking obscure in America.

The only good episodes were the last 7 after they fired the original writing team.

I liken it to Star Wars. Whatever his sins, George Lucas still had an artistic vision and a message he was trying to convey, while Disney just views the franchise in terms of how many toys they can sell.

Why do creatives think that Disney is a good place to sell their franchises to?

youre aware that they have a lot of money? Like, a LOT of money?

In the case of Jim and George, nostalgia for the days of Uncle Walt and likening their work to classic Disney to some extent.

George Lucas attended opening day of Disneyland as a child and kept saying that if Walt was still alive in the 1970s, he would totally have greenlit Star Wars versus all the other Hollywood suits constantly doubting him.

Get woke go broke.
collider.com/curious-creations-of-christine-mcconnell-cancelled-by-netflix/

How is "Addams Family Martha Stewart" woke?

Will there ever be another show like it?
.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp7V62tX6NQ

Whoops. Posted the wrong link.
cinemablend.com/news/2456446/why-melissa-mccarthys-happytime-murders-bombed-at-the-box-office-this-weekend

In both his and Henson's case, their message was rooted a lot in 60s politics because they were all fucking hippies.

If Jim was a hippie, does that mean Brian is an SJW?

I find it amazing that Carol was able to keep it up that long. The dude did it until he was like 82 or something and only in the last 2-3 years did he just do Big Bird's voice before retiring completely.

Nah he's just a typical Gen Xer who tried to create his own edgy version of the Muppets with more profanity and fart jokes.

He said it's mainly because you have to hold Big Bird's head above you which requires raising your arms above your head for extended periods. The costume actually only weighs a couple of pounds.

You also can't really see out of it and you have to have a video monitor so you can see where you're going.

They also used to do like 130 Sesame Street episodes a season, although since the turn of the millenium it's a smaller number.

Michael Eisner still had at least some notion of movies as art. Bob Iger only sees them in terms of how much money they can make for shareholders.

Yea, but writing something that'll hold a preschooler's attention for 30 minutes is probably a good deal easier than writing something that'll hold an adult's attention for thirty minutes

>The Muppet Show comic by Roger Langridge
I'm glad Marvel didn't try to continue it once Disney pulled the rights from BOOM, we didn't deserve what we got.

Marvel was at least generous enough to publish the last story that had been finished, but not printed, then put it all together in an Omnibus. They could have let that last finished story rot, and probably would have, but they likely needed a product tie-in for the 2012 movie and that material was just sitting there.

What's his end game? Is he a genius or a hack?
youtube.com/watch?v=cwBsTWteOGE

>Take a look at Nicholas Napoli’s post of the Understudy Training.
Where is this video?

Here you go:
youtube.com/watch?v=z0lIopsvkMg

This, some of the best Animated classics of all time under his tenure. Too bad EuroDisney fucked everything up.

based jim henson

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Disclaimer: Does not include Pocahontas

You think maybe the stress from these talks with Disney were what killed him?

>Michael Eisner still had at least some notion of movies as art.
Not that that absolves him of his fascistic tendencies especially the finagling with copyright laws.

Why was the modern reboot canceled?

The ratings didn't meet Disney's expectations.

i like it. i own the box set.

i think it was that abc switched ceos and it's practice for ceos to cancel shows the pervious ceo greenlit.

Remember, this can happen to a person.
youtube.com/watch?v=AftdZ1EwO-k

anyone else like it?
yeah it was just the office with muppets, but I felt like it could have been really good if it kept going

I did. Was really sad when it just up and ended like it did.

I'm amazed they were able to book Prince. Apparently it was also only like 48 hours since his baby passed away...

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If only someone like Jim was still working at Disney. Maybe then it wouldn't be the IP whore house it is today.

Kino to watch on a rainy sunday afternoon on Nickelodeon in the 90s

Fans hated the adult humor angle and muppets aren't profitable for the mainstream. So it had no base of support.

Was a awful idea for adult humor muppets anyway

The muppets were always aimed at the adult audience though...

Rating every Muppet theatrical film:

Treasure Island > Takes Manhattan > Muppet Movie > 2011 > Great Caper > Christmas Carol > Most Wanted > Space

No, they weren't. They were wholesome family entertainment that adults could have some interest in.

Penis jokes have no place in the Muppets.

Yes, but Disney thinks adult = edgy.

Dude, the first muppets tv series pilot was literally called "Muppets: Sex and Violence"

I mean fuck if you want a history on the show, as others have stated here multiple times, defunctland has a good documentary series going on it right now.

The lucky quads of truth right here

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Hand puppets are gay. CGI is better.

Get out Iger. You already fucked over Jim's legacy, don't fuck over the rest of the medium.

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Boy, have I got the Muppet for you!

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This freaked me out as a kid. I thought he was actually talking to me.

I guess I assumed that he was a fan and wanted to do it. given that he didn't do other shows, surely he would have rejected the Muppet show if he didn't think it was cool

Still mad about the Unforgivables Incredibles finale being a never ever though.

Honestly the Office Muppets was good and funny enough, the first episode had GINORMUS viewship followed by ginormus fallout.

I think the entire reason Muppets Office failed was because everyone was excpeting the varity show style Muppets. To be honest, the Muppets works the best when it in the style of classic vudville styled show and super zany. Just look at so many of the old one of skits The Muppet show had. Hell in generall The Muppets is a pretty surreal show and that's what makes it so funny and so memerable.

>muppets aren't profitable for the mainstream.
yes they are.

Thanks for the information.

So wordy successors or shitty ripoffs?

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I don't know, I thought Muppet's Tonight was pretty okay.

Would Farscape count as Muppet-related projects?

He understands it better than Jim's son. That is for sure.

Hard Mode: Name five GOOD puppet projects made by Brian.

>“I would NEVER want you to sign a deal you’re not comfortable with”.
What a guy.

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The only good things Brian ever made were Christmas Carol and Treasure Island.

I always wanted to pork Miss Piggy right between her hams.

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Worthy

Even then I think Jerry Juhl deserves more credit for how they turned out than Brian does.

I remember the first time I saw people on here discussing the Happytime Murders, as an actual played straight hardboiled detective story that just happened to use puppets.
Why is it that all deadpan humor nowadays has to either exist within the universe or be """snarky"""? What happened to the old style of comedy where the humor came from the premise being performed seriously? The same people who quote monty python or airplane don't know anything about what actually made that funny, because then they take the original premise and turn it into silly string jizz jokes.
Not that there's anything specifically wrong with silly-strings of semen, it's just the way it's portrayed. The way they do it in the released version, the gag is the same shit you'd see in American Pie, where the guy is freaking out over "wOAH! Jizz rocketing out at the speed of sound! Can't let the other guy see, or I'll be in BIG TROUBLE!", but I could see it just being a small gag the first time we see it, that they find traces of the killer's semen in the hooker's dead body, and they pull out the sample and it's a single hardened strand of silly string. But no, we've gotta pander to the lowest common denominator.
I still haven't watched Meet the Feebles yet, is it any good? I know it's schlock, but is it Texas Chainsaw 2 good-schlock, or Texas Chainsaw TNG bad-schlock?

>Michael [Caine], right from the beginning, said, "I'm going to play the movie like I'm acting up at the Royal Shakespeare Company." And, it takes a really good comedian to understand if they play a part really dramatically, the result is going to be funny because of the circumstance. So he knew, that the more sincerely he played Scrooge, the funnier the dynamic would be between him and the other Muppet characters.
This is exactly what I'm trying to get across with this post.

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Muppet Treasure Island is perfect, shame on you.

Thanks user, this is great info. And terribly sad.

I was 3 in 1976 when Muppets began.

What if the muppet showa was 1 hour long? Would that work?