Do the X-Men really need to deal with Mutant discrimination in their stories to work?

Considering how retardedly exaggerated it is at this time, not anymore.

Previous thread with some good ideas:

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Gay

Nope. The whole franchise works better when it’s about sci-if stories sprinkled with personal plots. We’re dealing with genetically superior people here. How the hell do trannies and niggers fit?

Are these threads like A-B testing from Marvel Studios to see how people would react to things that their movies might do?

Prejudice should absolutely be part of the X Men narrative, but the issue is it's all so one note. EVERYONE is a slobbering lynch mob. We need non mutants who believe in mutant rights, guys who casually "joke" about mutants, guys who try and mask their prejudicd in psuedoscience, and so on.

>Mutant discrimination
Why are they pushing this yet three X-Men members were fucking Avengers? Long time members at that.

Because Marvel has always been #woke. Tell me, what sense does it make to put the phrase “the next step of evolution” next to words like “niggers, trannies and fags”? None! But that didn’t stop the “Mutant Allegory”.

Nobody on the Avengers really cares that they're there, and the mutants themselves always come running back to the X-Men the moment any kind of shit goes down.

The Avengers are generally more accepting of mutants than the X-Men are of non-mutants.

>Protect a world that fears and hates them
Without the allegory X-Men is just the Avengers with more sex and violence.

Their most famous story is about an alien fire bird and a galactic empire. So no.

This just isn't true.

>Why are they pushing this yet three X-Men members were fucking Avengers? Long time members at that.

This has been brought up

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To work? No.
But it's a pretty relevant aspect of the X-Men

>enemies include Proto-Xenomorphs, Proto-Chozo, Darwin's crazy colleague, Ancient Aliens, crazy clone sorceress, Eyes Wide Shut and the concept of what to do with the unevolved flatscans
>"naaooooooo we need to make a mETaPHoR"
>their most famous story is about a Cosmic Fire Bird

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>need to deal with Mutant discrimination in their stories to work?

Child prostitution arc.

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Reminder that, other than a few random bits in the Silver Age that were just an attempt to copy Spider-Man and The Hulk and were then dropped just as quickly as Don Blake being a robotics expert, the X-Men were publicly accepted and beloved heroes with FBI contacts who conservative politicians could win elections just by pretending to know one member of the group. This did not change until Len Wein's run and with a completely different roster of members.

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Not really. I just think of them as a diverse team of colorful superheroes. Pryde of the X-Men was fucking awesome and it barely grazed the discrimination aspect at all.

See, that thing works much better. If you wanna touch on any "discrimination" aspect, touch on the uggo muties versus the beautiful muties.

>their most famous story is about a Cosmic Fire Bird
Phoenix saga is about female empowerment and Dark Phoenix is about mental health from a late 70's point of view.

It's still about a Cosmic Fire Bird user. The X-Men are more rooted in crazy sci-fi concepts, and that's when they work best. Why did people like Remender's X-Force? Why did the Kyle/Yost X-Force do so well? Why did people like Astonishing in the first place? Why were they so big in the 90s? Hell, why did they catch on so much in the first place? Because they had cool costumes, varied powers and found themselves in unique situations. They weren't confined to a city or had a set cast of 5 or 6 characters. They could time travel, fight aliens, cosmic gods and so on and so forth, with characters coming and going. Same reason why F4 caught on in the first place, but steadily wavered because the team's nature is different.

All stories have some sort of allegory, but trying to relate beautiful, genetically superior people with fags and shitskins, just doesn't work. The smart move would've been to tackle that by way of contrasting the ugly freaks and the demigods. When it's done in the way of the Morlocks, it makes some sense. Even Millar got that in Ultimate X-Men, for God's sake. Hell, Ellis tackled it in Astonishing but never had them acknowledge it, which was the point, and it got over people's heads.

Bottom line is, they work far better when they're free of such an ill-thought retcon that got blown out of proportion. They've got way too much crazy lore to drop all the cool things about the IP that made people like it, in favor of a boring concept that never really did work, especially in Capeshit.

Many other superheroes in Marvel are hated aswell.

honestly i think beast was more interesting on the avengers anyway

yeah this sounds more coherent than anything that we've gotten since. although i liked some of the ideas morrison introduced at least

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>honestly I think beast was more interesting on the avengers anyway
I prefer him fucking Brand in Space, desu.
>yeah this sounds more coherent than anything that we've gotten since.
Eh, that's pretty old. We've gotten good runs and stories. It's just that it's a ratio of 3:1 of "muh allegory" to actual good stories.
>although i liked some of the ideas morrison introduced at least
Morrison looked at the thing mostly logically and tackled it that way. Why would anyone hate beautiful muties with useful superpowers? If you want to create conflict, pit the ugly ones against the demigods. The jealous flatscans against the privilleged and overpowered omegas. And that's what Morrison did. It wasn't about "muh razizm", it was about the struggle between species/races/whatever they're calling themselves this week.

>It's still about a Cosmic Fire Bird user.
X-Men the Last Stand showed that you can easily do the Phoenix story without the cosmic bullshit

But the "cosmic bullshit" is what makes X-Men THE X-Men. Christ, why did you people even get into the comic if you don't like all the crazy cosmic shit? Do you like reading the same shitty storyline every month and feeling "cultured"? There's tons of movies about "muh slaves" out there. I'd rather read about Telepaths and Reality Warpers wrecking the shit of Space Birdpeople while Ancient Alien Gods loom in the background. I me- Wait.
>TLS
>an example of anything even remotely good
Oh, I got b8ed...

>X-Men the Last Stand

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That's what gay-ass kirby shit is for
Avengers and GOTG and the like

X-Men moved beyond that.

>"nah, fuck all the crazy lore"
>"I wanna read how muties are like niggers and see them cut off their "dicks" while parading around NYC"
Can't you just turn on the news or something? Besides, Avengers are Capes and GotG is shitty sci-fi. X-Men is SciFi Kino.

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The lore is overcomplicated nonsense

Xavier does not need an alien gf

It's something that people simply could relate to. I mean, you have wings, shoot laser and people think you're less than human?

Fuck no. These people will be superstar. Fucking thor walk in the street and every women would wet their panties seeing him

>The lore is overcomplicated nonsense
No you're just dumb.

Gaynigger from the Ghetto, if you don't care about Sci-Fi and just wanna read about gayniggers, there are tons of stuff out there.

But they don't have my waifu in them

Kinda, it's yet another key feature that distinguish them from Inhuman.

Nigger, why the hell did you ever get interested in the damn book in the first place? I swear to Christ, it's your fault everything's gone down the shitter. You and your dumbed down, normalfag, shitskin tastes. Sci-Fi truly is the white man's genre. The rest of you subhumans just can't get into it.

It's dumb and has never worked and never will.
See the mutant that got beat to death that the writer had to apologize for.

>random racism in response to a joke post
So this is what /pol/ does to the brain.

>gets triggered by slurs
>in an Italian Pasta Sauce Recipe Forum
My question still stands. If you don't like Sci-Fi, how the hell did you ever get interested in the book in the first place? And why the hell would you want it all to be dropped in favor for more Fraction shit? Also, you don't need to be a /pol/tard to be racist and sane.

It just so happened that the comics I owned featured very little sci-fi shit

Yeah, well, sucks to be you. The X-Men became a household name BECAUSE of the Sci-Fi "shit". Just because you're a normalfag doesn't mean you people have to crash the franchise. Your ilkis the reason why Post-2000s the runs worth reading can be counted in one's fingers.

>Gets triggered by a joke
>N-No YOU'RE the triggered one
lel

You owning shitty comics isn't really a stance to argue with.

Do people literally not understand how or why racial conflict, prejudice and discrimination work anymore? Despite all our evolution and civilization, humans are still tribal and territorial animals. While an individual Other may still face discrimination for being different, being an outsider, they can be allowed into the territory and be assimilated, but an entire race of Others, competing over the same territory and resources? And that race is proclaiming itself superior to you, and rejecting the laws, customs and culture of your society? That's a conflict about the survival of your own people, and the future of your species.

Marvel civilians don't like the Hulk or Spider-Man, but there aren't hundreds, thousands or millions of them. Mutants are an existential threat to humanity in a way other superhumans are not, with mutant terrorist villains like Magneto and Mystique fighting a literal race war.

Humans didn't hate Inhumans from the start because Inhumans had isolated themselves from the rest of the world for centuries. People didn't know who or what they were. There was no Inhuman equivalent of Magneto or Sabretooth that the public knew and feared. For decades it was literally a "stay in your own territory and keep to yourself and nobody will care about you being different" story. The outside world's only real experience of the Inhumans was the times Crystal was on the FF or the Avengers.

The Inhumans books showed the Terrigen cloud turning people into NuHumans did have people excited at the chance of getting powers, because nobody had reason to hate and fear Inhumans yet. If the Inhumans push had been successful, they would certainly have worked towards that point, and given the world reason to hate them, but Marvel never got to it.

But you didn't make any joke, that's the point. You simply went
>space shit A SHIT!
It's your opinion and all, and I was curious why anyone who hates sci-fi would read X-Men.

When the quintessential X-story is the Dark Phoenix storyline, which has exactly nothing to do with discrimination analogies, I think its fair to say that those analogies are not required.

>but they don't have my waifu in them
I don't see anything about space in there you autist.

...You're not the faggot from ?

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>can't follow his own reply chain
You're a fucking moron, lmao I'm done with you.

humans are the ones who decides mutants were too Other to be part of their tribe in the first place. mutant discrimination came long before mutant supremacists.
and as demonstrated repeatedly if humans accepted mutants then the amount of resources and territory readily available to them is drastically increased.

How the hell am I supposed to follow it when I ask a question, the first nigger stops posting and you butt in? Christ...

nobody cared about x-men until they started playing up the discrimination angle. if you take that away you're just left with a more crowded fantastic four

Guess it depends on your metrics. How many mutants have been Avengers, how many non-mutants have been X-Men?

You can count the latter on one hand. And no, you don't get to count Storm while she was de-powered, thats just silly. Meanwhile, going all the way back to Cap's Kooky Quartet when half the Avengers lineup were mutants. When some of the fan-favorite Avengers stories have Beast (an O5 X-Man) as a member. Namor (the "first mutant", after all) has a long-standing associate and member of the Avengers. Busiek's v3 run prominently featuring Justice and Firestar. The Avengers just don't care about identity politics when it comes to membership the way the X-teams do.

And the few non-mutants on the X-Men tend to have deep ties to the team already, like bringing Juggernaut into the team. Its not so much they are non-mutant-welcoming, its that Cain got a free pass for being family.

>Be Mutant
>Call themselves homo fucking SUPERIOR
>Live in a nice fucking mansion by themselves
>Tell normalfag hero who try to teach their kids to fuck off
>Its not hit fault he exploded and kill a zillion ppl, mah boi didnt du nuffin

Why is the human side the bad one?

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>nobody cared about x-men until they started playing up the discrimination angle

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Wrong. Nobody cared about X-Men until the characters were adults and had colorful, individual costumes that looked appealing. Chris Claremont's writing didn't hurt, either.

>mutant discrimination came long before mutant supremacists.

This is revisionist history done to justify Magneto's actions. Originally people had no idea what a mutant was until Magneto declared war on the world. Humans didn't name mutants as "Homo Superior", they did that themselves.

Also, "you should accept this entire population of people into your land and share resources with them. They are obviously not the same as you, they do not act or behave like you, nor share your values and culture, and they don't like you, but you should accept them" shows you still don't understand how it works. Accepting them just means your own race eventually gets outbred and replaced, and this outweighs any benefits of accepting them.

the original run of x-men was looking to be cancelled until Giant Sized X-Men sold like hotcakes

Yes. And said stories, for the majority of the time, were about sci-fi plots. 6 issues or so later Phoenix appeared and in the next storyarc they were fighting Firelord. 10 issues later Chuck was smashing SpaceBird pussy.

Exactly. I with some moral ambiguity could be introduced into in X-men stories instead of having mutants be 100% oppressed.

In Schism Cyclops and Wolverine walk into a conference in Basel to tell nations to deactive their Sentinels while ignoring the fact that the two of them are literally living weapons in the presence of unarmed politicans.

>the original run of x-men was looking to be cancelled until Giant Sized X-Men sold like hotcakes

You mean the comic where they fought a giant plant island monster?

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Yeah, in order to rescue Cyclops other brother.

>Accepting them just means your own race eventually gets outbred and replaced
by the same logic the mutants will also be outbred and replaced. the result won't be mutants or homo sapiens but mutant-homo sapient hybrids.
and considering homo sapiens are already a hybrid race of several extinct human species its not like it would be a big deal. their genes live on. their memes live on. what more can you ask for?

Inhumans are a kind of mutant.

Don't tell Marvel civilians that. They'd have a collective aneurysm.

This.

It's like how not every Spider-Man story is directly about his responsibilities to the city and himself, but it's a running theme.

X-Men need to rediscover subtly and remember they are a fucking superhero franchise, not some halfassed the Wire with laser eyes deal.

A big step would be bringing evil mutants who want to rule the world back but that's not gonna happen with Hickman, dude's so hard for the singularity we're gonna have Xavier talking about how mutants need a planet of their own or some shit.

Man the Avengers are hardly immune to public criticism, even before Civil War. Their need to appease an angry public was a huge part of Buisek's run, for example.

Silver Age X-Men stopped getting new material and became a reprint book due to "low sales" that any modern series would kill for, but after they started printing new stories in 1975, didn't it actually take the book a few years before sales surpassed the pre-reprint levels? It wasn't an immediate success right from Giant Sized X-Men #1.

that's good bait dude, nice job and well timed.

>by the same logic the mutants will also be outbred and replaced.

If they're not allowed into your land, neither of those things is happening to them.

>the result won't be mutants or homo sapiens but mutant-homo sapient hybrids.

No, those are just mutants.

>and considering homo sapiens are already a hybrid race of several extinct human species its not like it would be a big deal. their genes live on.

From the perspective of the present day, nobody mourns the Neanderthal. In the time of the Neanderthal, expecting them to be upbeat and positive about the glorious future awaiting Homo Sapiens is just stupid.

> their memes live on. what more can you ask for?

All memes shall wither and die. All except Baneposting. Baneposting is eternal.

It's just a normie ass galaxy brained opinion, just like the idea that the x-men have to be the ONLY superhumans in order to work.

Not only does there being other superhumans make the prejudice more complex, having a broader world of adventure is only a good thing for the x-men, who suffer when they focus entirely on The Metaphor instead of that just being an aspect of their stories.

Like sometimes you just gotta go to Asgard and make out with a wolf god and it's part of accepting your own worth despite what your psychotic father told you and that's just as important as another dull ass story where humans with flamethrowers blow up a school bus.

I said this before but while it is silly that you don't see the Avengers fight sentinels it's just a nature of the comics. It's the same logic as why the X-men don't square off with Ultron all that often. It's not their book and villain. It only stands out as a big deal when you call attention to it.

>In Schism Cyclops and Wolverine walk into a conference in Basel to tell nations to deactive their Sentinels while ignoring the fact that the two of them are literally living weapons in the presence of unarmed politicans.

Does this all go back to people wanting to copy the second movie ending with the X-Men threatening the President? Making characters that are supposed to be the heroes behave like villains justifies everyone hating them, even if the story wants to portray the people hating them as one-dimensional strawman bigots who hate for no reason.

You cant be half mutant

Everyone in this thread is now gay

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They don't specifically have to be visiting locations like Asgard or fighting villains like Ultron, that 'belong' to other books. They can visit the Savage Land or the Shi'Ar Empire, they can fight Sinister or Sauron. There are plenty of options for telling stories about the X-Men that have nothing to do with race and oppression. There used to be balance.

has there ever been a story about homosap people intentionally knocking up/getting knocked up by mutants because they want superpowered kids they can live vicariously through like parents who force their kids into sports and beauty pageants?

The X-Men should be the explorers of the weirdest aspects of the Marvel universe. Something like Morrison's Doom Patrol and Warren Ellis' Planetary. New weird, slipstream madness.

Thats fantastic four

In a way, yeah, but the Fantastic Four always came off as positivist and utopian sci-fi while I'd expect X-Men to be more gritty and dirty.

You have the Surfer for that

Please inform me which Avengers are anti-mutants. The X-Men constantly let Magneto and Namor join who have tried to go on multiple genocidal campaigns against humans. In fact, if you want to have some humans have a reasonable fear of the X-Men, have them point out the X-Men's revolving door of mutant villains they constantly let in who will eventually betray them.

Mutants are usually much better written and more fun when they're part of other teams.

hell no, but it's nice that they can have a few villains with a racist angle that isn't outdated.

We need pictures of mutants protesting chanting "X GENE ISN'T CONSENT" or something. while half of them are those "naked because of power" type of dudes, like Iceman.

Honestly if I was your average person in the MU, the Terrigen cloud would have made me despise Inhumans. I managed to clear puberty without turning into one of those mutie freaks and now fucking space mutants from the moon have unleashed a giant fart that could turn me into one of those abominations? And I’m part of their weird inbred society? Fuck that, I’m joining up with the Purifiers.

>get turned into an Inhuman
>beg to join the Muties
>ample amounts of Mutie pussy and an Ethnostate
>???
>Profit

Literally you

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Everybody on Yea Forums hates the X-Men, just like they hate black people and LGBTs and wish them all dead. Why does it matter how they're portrayed?

Joke’s on you nigger. I’m a White Supremacist and love the X-Men because they’re straight up Race Supremacists and 99% white people. They’re the only piece of pop culture I can actually identify with. Just because your ilk keeps trying to self insert as Genetically Superior people in fiction, due to you losing the genetic lottery in real life, doesn’t make it true. X-Men is the white man’s franchise. Go read Avengers. It’s got bling and easy to follow plots.

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>immediately think I'm black
Whatever makes you happy, murderer.
Oh, and thanks for giving me another screencap for my "Yea Forums only attracts truly evil people" collection.

Eh, Tumblrina Mutt or Genuine Nigger doesn’t make that much difference to me. Anyhow, glad to be of assistance lassie.

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Go back to /pol/

>Inhumans have a smug tumblr cunt, Captain Swain, who mind controls people like BitchJean and would turn you gay for their agenda
>She even helped create a false flag against mutants in Australia so Inhumans could get a foothold there
>In fact Romeo, a gay inhuman during the space between Death of X-IvX, who had Purple Man pheromone powers, and even joked about how he may or may not be using them to get young Bobby into his honeypot after BitchJean turned him Gay.
>Romeo even ghosts Bobby's frosted ass after the honeypot/IvX shit was done like the two bit thot he is.
>Almost every Inhuman is a degenerate bimbo or manipulative cunt like Medusa, even the men
>Muties have the same shit with BitchJean turning people gay, Stepford Cuckoos lobotomizing you if you even have a heterosexual thought, and even Bobby will freeze you if you don't suck his cock 24/7 or have gripes in your relationship

Reavers and Purifiers are right, Mutants and Inhumans are absolute degenerates and mind rapists. Purge both of them for the sake of everybody, especially since they glorify this behavior and have no self-control/policing for their reprehensible actions.

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>"Yea Forums only attracts truly evil people" collection.
Yet here you are.

Cuckoos were just offended a nigger was thinking about fucking them. They like tall white Chads like Mommy Emma.

The X-Men are just a soap opera and they need every source of melodrama they can get

Yeah. If anything, the success didn't really take off until well into Claremont's run.

Despite being created in the 60s and re-invented in the 70s, you really could argue that the X-Men are essentially an 80s creation in terms of relevance. I never saw the Factor 3 or Living Monolith arcs from the Silver Age in any cartoon or movie.

>The X-Men constantly let Magneto and Namor join who have tried to go on multiple genocidal campaigns

Don't forget that the 2010s saw them allow a literal Nazi war criminal responsible for the deaths of hundreds (and who came within seconds of killing millions, as well as being responsible for death camp atrocities and raiding Jewish villages in Europe) to join.

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Based Muties.
>ywn crack a cold one open with Nemesis and Logan as they reminisce about their Nazi days of plowing Kazan Milkers
Jdimsa.

They are trying to push the trans thing as a new next step in evolution right now. So, it happens.

>Gamma Town
>Spider Island

try again moviefag

You would think more people would really REALLY hate the Inhumans since Terregen more often than not turns people into fucking horrible monsters than it actually gives superpowers.

It would only really take like 1-2 monstrosities created by it in the media before the whole world turns against them. And the cloud likely made a few hundred.

And then, one day, for no reason at all, people voted Hitler into power.

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And thanks to new retcon, Xavier and Namor went road tripping across the US in the 1950's looking for mutants and just caused a shitload of problems in a lot of small towns.

Mind wiping towns, fucking with cops, turning people into cat people to boost the mutant numbers. I'm having a lot of trouble seeing how humans are the bad guys in these situations.

The entirety of Yea Forums is now /pol/.

How is the relationship between inhumans and mutants nowadays anyway? Are inhumans the victims now because “a bloo bloo, our kids won’t superpower via deadly fart gas”?

I thought only the most elite, pure bred, genetically superior ones actually developed superpowers. While everyone else got fur, a third arm, claw fingernails, or turned purple.

Reminder that mutant hate is perfectly rational. Would you want your child going to school with a kid who suddenly and unexpectedly develops a death touch?

I think it doesn't make sense in terms of how currently earth should know all about extraterrestrial threats and the like already. Unless you want to tell me that major alien events are being scrubbed.

I think it's unthinkable how street level mutants and heroes haven't already been integrated to the police force or how there are less scenarios where patriotic superheroes aren't treated like nukes as deterrent for global conflict and such.

why si Beast dressed like a recently divorced substitute teacher?

I like to imagine the X-men have cool pool parties when the other heroes get their shit kicked by aliens, demons, kaijus, hydra etc.

>what? you need backup? no we are busy saving mutants..somewhere. What? drunk? noo I dont sound drunk, fuck off Rogers you are a retard.

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why the fuck did you even namedrop inhumans? five years ago you wouldn't even know that such group even existed

eh, not exactly true.
The X-Men were these kids for whom the powers were burden, rather than a reason to be happy

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there is ambiguity, during the secret empire, mutants have their own country, and in that country, they were discriminating normal humans

the whole silver age X-Men thing is weird, because Goodman was a greedy kike. The X-Men were selling good enough to be published, but not good enough to spend money on making new stories. It's extremely baffling

it's even more baffling, because Hulk was cancelled after MERE 6 issues, and he didn't have a new ongoing until many many years later

DAMN I would kill for an Ultron vs X-Men story

BASED AS FUCK. Too bad Dr Nemesis hates nazis nowadays

Don't you mean /col/?

more like /cool/

Honestly, every Marvel hero whangsted like that. Even Iron Man (the entire reason he changed his suit was because it scared people) and Captain America (who got made fun of by hippies and returning 'Nam veterans). Even the ones who never had problems with the public still whined about how their powers were a curse that kept them from living a normal life (Pretty much every issue of Daredevil).

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yeah, you're right. it was just a marvel thing, which is probably why the X-men felt like another marvel heroes. But then again, it's not like Dr Strange, Iron Man or DD were huge successes back then. In the 60s, the only marvel books that were doing well were Spider-Man, FF and Thor, in that order. The rest was slouching. I mean, there are available charts of the sales of the marvel books from that era, and Avengers were selling on the same level as X-men, but it was X-men that was turned into reprint mode

Yeah, that has to be the most wtf redemption Marvel has ever given a character. And the thing is, he hadn't been seen since his appearances in Invaders, so it's not like he had a million fans of his Golden Age stories crying for him to be brought back and forgiven.

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It’s odd...when I recall my favorite X-Men stories it’s almost entirely unrelated to the prejudice stuff, aside from early Sentinels and Days of Future Past/Present.

Savage Land, Dracula, Shi’ar, Brood, evil mutants, Sinister, Apocalypse, etc.

I remember that when I've read that issue where Dr Nemesis joins the X-Men and I've felt like "wtf? why do they act like I should recognize that character? Did I miss anything? Who the fuck is Dr Nemesis?" Gillen and Spurrier did splendid job with him, though

Not really. He was a hero in the Golden Age stories like the rest of the Battle Axis. It's just Roy Thomas decided to make him a villain along with the other in the Invaders mini he appeared in. But ignoring the mini, he was a Golden Age hero who got the short end of the stick in the 90s.

Source on this lore? Assuming you're not pulling it out of your arse?

Not him, but it’s the current Invaders book.