"Stephen McFeely: So, then, we had to decide what kind of time travel rules we were using. We brought in a couple of physicists who, to a man, said, "I'm glad you brought me in, because I've always wanted to talk to people from Hollywood to say that you know I love Back to the Future as much as the next person, but we don't think that's how it would work." Which was also helpful for us because as you can imagine, every time we went back to one of ... you know we have six different time heists in three or four different periods ... if every time you went back you created a new Biff's Casino, for want of a better term, right? Another crack in the version of your timeline? We would never get out of the second act."
"Christopher Markus: That is our theory. We are not experts on time travel, but the Ancient One specifically states that when you take an Infinity Stone out of a timeline it creates a new timeline. So Steve going back and just being there would not create a new timeline. So I reject the "Steve is in an alternate reality" theory."
One of the screenwriters says Cap was always Peggy's secret husband while the directors say it's an alternate timeline. Which is it, Yea Forums?
I prefer the idea that it's the same universe if only because the idea that old cap saved enough pym particles specifically for the point of time jumping back to our reality when they never really said the quantumverse could send you to different dimensions is a little too much for me to believe.
Samuel Stewart
Here's how it works, in 100% actuality: >If your jump through the Quantum Realm would place you at a point in time where your actions could influence the continuity of something you've already experienced, the timeline branches instead and a branch reality emerged >Those branch realities are now tangible, separate timelines, which can influence and be influenced by each other >You can travel to any branch reality without creating a new branch reality as long as you aren't entering that branch reality at a point in time prior to the last point in time you experienced within it
Examples >Scott traveled through the Quantum Realm for five hours, arriving at a point in time in the main timeline 5 years ahead of when he left >No branch reality is created, because he can't affect his own experienced continuity by having done that
>Cap traveled through the Quantum Realm to arrive at 2012 >A branch reality is created, because Cap has already experienced 2012, creating 2012b and rendering the prime timeline 2012a
Say Cap were to travel to the universe 2012b occurred in, except to the year 2013. Cap would not create a branch timeline, because he hasn't experienced 2013b, only 2013a. The fact that Cap has experienced one iteration of the year 2013 doesn't matter, because 2013b is a different iteration.
As long as you only ever travel forwards relative to the last point in time you experienced in that reality, no branch timeline is created. Taking these rules to be true, there's no hole in the time travel logic, and it's the only way to prevent there being any holes.
Luis Lopez
Whatever you want it to be, stop relying on Word of God to derive enjoyment, you autist.
Josiah Nguyen
So there's two movies in one?
Hudson Flores
>One of the screenwriters says Cap was always Peggy's secret husband while the directors say it's an alternate timeline. Which is it, Yea Forums? If it's the same timeline then Loki's entire history after Avengers 1 changed too. There's no way they're going with that.
Jaxon Brown
In the case of a movie, director's word trumps screen writer's. The screenplay is more like a guideline.
Elijah Cooper
I like to imagine that Cap hunted loki down.
Jose Long
Even if he were able to, he can't get that timeline 100% retconned back into shape.
Gabriel Cox
If that's what your headcanon tells you, sure.
Nicholas Nelson
How did marvel letbwriters contradict the directors, thisnis ridicoulous. Didn't they talk about it? Is it intemtional, some kind of 3d chess?
Joshua Robinson
Maybe its both. Maybe a Cap from a different timeline already infiltrated the MCU one and became Peggy's secret husband there, but its just not "our' Cap. Like after Cap went to the new timeline to marry Peggy, that still left a frozen Cap that had to get thawed out eventually, and he may have jumped to another timeline to marry a Peggy of his own, starting this up again. Maybe its an infinite loops of Cap stealing his own girl, and the MCU version we're used to isn't the start of it.
Nicholas Green
>Cap goes back to the moment Loki stole the cube >Uses the time stone to pull Loki back. >Freeze time using the time stone >Move the cube away from him.
Grayson Sanders
>Infographic man was right Apologize
Josiah Jackson
Shut up, Infographic man.
Leo Ortiz
Apologize first.
Aiden Young
There's nothing to apologize for, you're now clutching at straws that the directors already trampled on.
Jace Baker
>directors wrote it wow
Brandon Gray
>Which is it, Yea Forums? only sith deal in absolutes
Jaxon Turner
The directors have final say on what's actually used from the screenplay. They can delete entire pages of the screenplay easier than Thanos can snap his fingers.
Christopher Reed
I fucking hate how they keep shitting on back to the future as if the time travel in Endgame was any less bullshit
Charles Lewis
I'll have "conversations that never happened" for takeout.
Logan Martinez
Schrodinger's Steves?
Cooper Foster
Thats Modern Hollywood forma you.
Jose Brown
Because if they wanna show it in China, closed Time loop or alternate timelines are the only ways to do it, no time travel. So writers stick to the former, Russos stick to latter.
Samuel James
>Cap hunts Loki >Steve was dancing with Loki who bewitched himself to look like Peggy >Realized he loves Loki after chasing him for eons >Proposes and gets married >They move to Asgard and Steve occasionally fucks with Thor's hammer.
Endgame is MCU's first gay movie indeed. How beautiful.
And the other writer explicitly states that they use branching timelines So we literally have two contradicting statements
Joshua Nguyen
>One of the screenwriters says Cap was always Peggy's secret husband while the directors say it's an alternate timeline. Which is it, Yea Forums? I guess we'll have to wait for the BD Commentary to find out what's their final statement
Eli Turner
Not even the writers and the directors truly know what the fuck happened, huh?
And Marvel fans praise this? yikes!
Leo Adams
This. Marvel is finished.
Ian Rogers
They lost Downey and Evans at a go. While Larson's signed on for 7 movies.
Owen Parker
You guys are idiots. They're not contradicting each other. They were in the same room doing that interview. Markus says 'our' theory, not my theory. Mcfeely doesn't say shit to rebut. Both alternate time lines (if stones are removed or things change) and causal time lines can coexist. People that can't wrap their heads around the fact that you can go back in time and not change anything are thinking from a strictly linear perspective and not from a cyclical one (like a Mobius Strip)
Isaac Ward
They didn't delete that part though. It was in the movie. They just answered with their interpretation of what was in the movie that the writers originally wrote.
Brayden Stewart
I thought it was clear by now that the Russos are hacks who will literally say anything to keep their fans happy no matter how nonsensical or contradictory it is
Ryan Cruz
>You guys are idiots. They're not contradicting each other. The Russo brothers were the ones who said Cap went to an alternate timeline and came back. So yes, they are contradicting each other.
Connor Ramirez
>Our movie uses multiverse time travel instead of Back to the Future rules! >Except for Cap, that's a single timeline. It's either branching realities like McFeely said or a closed loop like Markus said. It can't be both.
Gabriel Howard
There is genuinely nothing special about the movies they've made in directing terms. They've been carried by screenwriters and composers that elevate the work far beyond what they're capable of..
Thomas Robinson
>I thought it was clear by now that the Russos are hacks who will literally say anything to keep their fans happy no matter how nonsensical or contradictory it is
In terms of time travel, what Markus is saying contradicts what actually happens in the movie like Nebula killing herself or Thanos dying in two different ways. A single timeline doesn't make any sense.
Juan Rivera
time remnants faggot.
Lucas Clark
Yes, bring in physicists about something that may not even exist instead of taking it from the comics that inspired these movies. Genius.
Adrian Barnes
I heard they might be setting up incursions and secret wars. And you need a multiverse for that. So the russos are pushing that theory hard.
Christopher Gray
Except Cap went back to a time period he experienced. He was unconscious in the ice, but he was still there. Time doesn't give a shit if you-re asleep through life.
I told you guys Russos just BSed an explanation. I guess it's whatever Feige says now.
Christopher Campbell
>I told you guys Russos just BSed an explanation.
How so?
Chase Davis
>either way, Cap goes back to the past because he can't move on >despite having friends and a relationship
fuck this ending either way.
David Ramirez
I love how tumblrinas are so upset the Russos didn't make Bucky and Cap gay lovers.
Hunter Martin
He didn't really have a relationship with Sharon, I wish people would stop memeing this
Jason Campbell
Its both, and we can’t have that.
Angel Myers
Is that seriously a thing?
Jaxson Lopez
Sharon got snapped specifically so it wouldn't happen.
He lost all his new pals in the snap so after all was said and done he'd opt to stay because he'd been stewing in his lonliness for 5 years.
Jeremiah Foster
I feel like they set this up so timetravel can't be an all solving solution to any future problems. So they don't just go "Why didn't they time travel to 5 days ago and stop the problem before ithappened"
It worked out in this specific instance because it let them get the already destroyed in their reality infinity stones to fix Thanos's snap, but otherwise no take backs.
Owen Walker
Funny how we can't even be sure at this point...
Brody Gomez
>Bruce! Look at that thing! What is it? >The Blackheart. It appears to have grown into his skin and is giving him his heart's greatest desire >By Hera! What should we do? >Leave him be. He's been so selfless, we should let him have this. Have a good time, old friend.
In what movie has the writer ever had more say than the director when the writer was not also the director or an executive producer?
Sebastian Davis
Not mentioned in the movie and not a thing in the comics so where would those come from.
Evan Gonzalez
You fundamentally misunderstand batman if you think he'd stop Superman from leaving if Clark told him "yeah I just wanna take care of Jon, and enjoy my time with Lois"
Adrian Martinez
Director over writer.
Also, Steve's anomalies aka his hundred+ descendants by the time he leaves, will sustain the new universe on its own.
Owen Thomas
If you think Batman would let Superman live out a life of delusion, you don't understand Batman.
Ryan Carter
Alternative timeline/reality Then when the stones are returned, everything go back to normal Fuck time travel.
Ryder Young
Can somebody explain to me how Thor is able to have Stormbreaker and Mjolnir at the same time? By taking Mjolnir out of the past does that mean he created a reality where he had to fight Malekith without Mjolnir. If he didn’t have to fight Malekith does he created another timeline where he lost to Malekith?
Colton Morgan
>OK, be honest: Do you guys understand everything about how time travel works as explained in the movie or are there still loopholes even for you? >AR: In the movie, the Hulk is very explicit about what our rules are, which is you cannot change the present by altering the past. All you can do by going to the past — and for a character like Cap[tain America], living in the past — is create an alternate future. So this is a world in which alternate timelines exist.
>Was it difficult presenting a theory of time travel that hadn’t previously been explored onscreen? >AR: “Back to the Future” is one of our favorite films, and the rules of that movie are ubiquitous; they have informed pop culture for 40 years. And we wanted to do something different. We didn't realize how complicated it would be to create new rules and have people go with us, but we learned very early on in the test screenings that people are really committed to those “Back to the Future” rules — if you shoot yourself, you should die. We spoke with a few physicists, and there’s a lot of theories about how time travel could work. We chose the multiverse theory.
It's not the Russos' fault one of the writers doesn't understand the time travel rules they agreed on.
Jason Hall
We'll go with what was in the fucking movie, where it was explicitly stated that all time travel is alternate dimensions and there are no time loops or affecting the future by altering the past.
Blake Rodriguez
How is Nebula not dead after killing her past self?
Leo Hughes
>By taking Mjolnir out of the past does that mean he created a reality where he had to fight Malekith without Mjolnir.
They show Cap with Mjolnir on the time travel platform. It also disproves the theory that returning the stones is all you need to do to fix those timelines.
But then …he doesn’t come back. At least, not as we know him. He finds Peggy Carter and stays with her.
So, has Cap been living in the past this whole time — or did he go and live in another dimension?
The directors say it’s the latter.
“If Cap were to go back into the past and live there, he would create a branched reality,” Joe explained. “The question then becomes, how is he back in this reality to give the shield away?”
The brothers smile.
“Interesting question, right?” Joe said. “Maybe there’s a story there. There’s a lot of layers built into this movie and we spent three years thinking through it, so it’s fun to talk about it and hopefully fill in holes for people so they understand what we’re thinking.”
Alexander Moore
Barbecue at Clark's.
Asher Price
Sounds like they're covering their asses
Joshua Robinson
>Sounds like they're covering their asses
What does Chris Evans say about it?
Michael Adams
>"fuck ya'll I'm out"
Dominic Williams
If the writers and directors can't agree on the plot, I'm wondering what the actors were told about what happened to their characters. You would think there would be consensus on such an important plot point. What a shit show.
William Thompson
>ancient one says the infinity stones create the linear flow of time >endgame begins with destruction of all stones at once That moment threw all the rules out the window. All decisions from that moment forward are going to irreversably branch time regardless of what happens. Steve returned all the stones and just waited things out until the stones were destroyed in his timeline, after which he was able to hop back into the present without causing the timeline he was in to vanish. We multiverse now.
Christopher Kelly
Markus explanation flies in the face of McFeely's, which lines up with the Russos.
If three are saying alternate realities, then Markus is just wrong.
Nathan Thompson
I think Chinese time travel rules only apply to making light of actual history, not fictional history.
Colton Garcia
>Chinese time travel it's a weird timeline we live in
Mason White
>Chinese time travel rules rather
Jordan Lee
Given Avengers 3 & 4, as well as Deadpool 2 made it over there, there is no blanket ban on time travel. The actual issue seems to be misrepresentation of historical figures.
Levi Rodriguez
>This is why he doesn't tell Sam about his girl Jeez.
Jason Thompson
It's more like a ban on certain drama types that were popular in China during the 00 period. It doesn't help that censorship is not monolithic even with guidelines.
Jordan Turner
>a stray skinny Steve infiltrated the MCU and became Peggy's husbando like one of those twink walruses that sneak in and fuck the lady walruses whilst the alpha walrus is distracted
Ryan Kelly
They actually didn't tell the actors alot when shooting IW and EG to avoid them spoiling anything. Only RDJ was trusted with knowing the entire plot.
Like half the reason Carol is so dull and uninspired is because she was greenscreened in later and filmed seperately, and wasn't even told which characters she was talking to because they didn't want Brie knowing who lived and who died yet.
Sad thing is wtih all the insane secrecy and BS they didn't to keep it top secret, like most trailers just being clips of older films and the actors on the press tours not being allowed to actually talk about the movie or show clips, and I didn't even think the plot was that surprising. I basically called 90 percent of the movie.
Jose Russell
How about “who gives a shit”.
Carter Nelson
Wait, so when Captain Marvel looks down at Peter, Brie didn't know if he was clothed or not? She just assumed her character was there to dominate the young boy, and went with it?
Movie magic!
Kayden Edwards
Can't use the stones with your barehands without risk of self-destruction. Especially not someone that is borderline superhuman like Steve.
Jaxson Gonzalez
FUCK YOU STEPHEN From now until the point when the MCU is unprofitable, each movie will be plagued with the question: "Why didn't they just go back in time to fix/borrow/hide/ect..."
Jeremiah Nelson
Sounds like they didn't think things through and pulled something out of their asses when backed into a corner.
Hunter Rodriguez
>From now until the point when the MCU is unprofitable, each movie will be plagued with the question: "Why didn't they just go back in time to fix/borrow/hide/ect..." I mean, that's literally what they do in Endgame.
Isaac Nelson
Seems like Endgame's time travel rules have been used before.
They're taking the time travel rules they used in the movie to its logical conclusion. I don't see how that's an ass-pull.
Jayden Morgan
It makes sense. I love my headcanon that this Steve's really steve prime from the future, like Scott was. And he's being coy because he really married Sam (and Bucky) and he didn't want to ruin the surprise for Sam.
Basically, an ship or variation or combo's an actual possibility, not just the realm of cray shippers, because the multiverse is now a thing in the MCU.
So there's a verse out there where Tony's ploughing into Steve's Star-Spangled American ass while Scott and Pepper sip wine.
Adam Rivera
Old Steve didn't return to the main timeline on the time platform. If they wanted to reinforce the alternate timeline rule, he would had returned on the time platform.
Ryder Murphy
>We would never get out of the second act Oh I get it, you idiots are really lazy
Adrian Moore
That's what I'm saying. Him living his life in the past all the way up to that bench without changing the timeline, now that would be an ass-pull based on the events of the movie. People are too caught up with him not showing up on the platform when he could have easily shown up off-screen.
Nathan Davis
>avoiding time paradoxes is lazy writing
Connor Stewart
Don't worry, we can go back in time and fix it
Grayson Jones
That's the point of the alternate universes thing though. They can't go back in time and redo anything, or at least not that will actually improve their own reality.
It helped them in this one instance where they needed the stones destroyed in their time to undo something only their power could do, but it's not like they could just go back and stop Thanos before he did it.
So really unless a very important plot device is destroyed again and they need to obtain another version they can't really use timetravel as an end all solution.
That's probably why they created that rule in the first place.
Nathan Garcia
Old cap came back with a new shield so it's an alternate reality
Aaron Gutierrez
>Steve Rogers fucks the Marvel Universe.
Isaiah Adams
He's been a virgin for a hundred years. He deserves to dick and get dicked or Pegged by everyone.
Why would physicists even know about time travel or be experts in it? It isn't real nor possible.
Dominic Allen
>not even the fucking writers and directors of the movie can agree on what happened with Cap >either way there's tons of problems with him going back
jesus christ why didn't they just kill him
Landon Hall
What else do you call it? safe? there's no fuckin' stakes then, Strange not only choosed the only timeline where he didn't permanently die but also the most stupid one.
Now apparently there was a script that had him having the dance and coming back as he was to retire. Literally nothing would have been lost if 2023 Cap handed over the shield to Sam and it would have saved all this headache.
An able-bodied Cap handing over the shield to the next generation would have been more powerful actually.
See
Isaiah Anderson
>One of the screenwriters says Cap was always Peggy's secret husband Hold the fuckin' phone here. You're saying Cap fucked his niece?
Ryan Cruz
So I assumed the time travel in Endgame just worked with parallel timelines like Dragonball, but they said putting all the stones back to where they belonged would repair the timelines and fused them back to the original stream correct? So doesn't this make a whole bunch of paradoxes like Loki escaping and Past Nebula dying?
>So doesn't this make a whole bunch of paradoxes like Loki escaping and Past Nebula dying? Yes. That's why it has to be an alternate timeline. A single timeline would wreck the premise of the movie.
Joshua Russell
Apparently not. When Steve returned the stones, the timeline where loki disappears will be fused back right?
Asher Martinez
Only thing I can think of is that he returned to the timepad at an earlier time when no-one was around and then waited until he was gone but then that would mean that the ending of the movie is in a branching timeline.
Aren't these just the same rules the comics have been using for half a century now? Just look at X-Men!
Juan Carter
>When Steve returned the stones, the timeline where loki disappears will be fused back right This makes zero sense and this meme has to die. Loki had already escaped before they took the stone, why'd returning it fix anything.
