What happened to Steve at the end of ENDGAME. Writers contradict directors.
They wrote the thing, so I believe them over the directors. In any case, it's fairly obvious that a split reality is created if someone changes something in the past or removes a stone, but it's entirely possible to go back to the past, change nothing, and keep things as they always were in canon, which does not create an alt reality. Steve did just that.
From the interview:
The Russo Brothers were recently quoted as saying that Steve Rogers lived his life out in an alternate past before returning to the original timeline to pass the shield and mantle of Captain America on to Sam Wilson. Markus, however, doesn't seem to agree with the "alternate reality" theory as he dubs it.
"That is our theory," he says when asked if there were two Captain Americas in existence for a time. "We are not experts on time travel, but the Ancient One specifically states that when you take an Infinity Stone out of a timeline it creates a new timeline. So Steve going back and just being there would not create a new timeline. So I reject the "Steve is in an alternate reality" theory."
"I do believe that there is simply a period in world history from about '48 to now where there are two Steve Rogers," he continues, further confusing matters. "And anyway, for a large chunk of that one of them is frozen in ice. So it's not like they'd be running into each other."
The thing is that if Steve went back and stayed in our past, people start screaming "Why didn't he stop 9/11" or the Vietnam War or whatnot. Saying it was an alternate reality covers the director's asses.
Jayden Wood
But that's fucking wrong. Just by being in the past, during a time when he's supposed to be frozen, would be changing the timeline, making it an alternate timeline.
Carter Smith
Unless it was a stable time loop, and he was always the unidentified husband of Peggy Carter.
Of course, that means he was banging his granddaughter.
Lucas White
1.He stays in hiding with SHIELD tech. 2. 9/11 never happened in the MCU. Just because the twin towers arent there doesnt mean it happened. Maybe they were never bulit in the first place, maybe Howard Stark or Norman Osborne built their own buildings in that location instead.
Eli Flores
niece
Landon Ramirez
Steven and Sharon never dated. The Accords put a stop to any chance of the relationship going anywhere.
Anyway, Marcus is just wrong. He explains earlier in the interview the rules as they set them with their physicist consultants, and then throws them out the window when it comes to Old Steve.
Adam Adams
No one knows what the fuck is going on in the movie, right?
Ethan Morgan
Marcus clearly doesn't understand the rules they set.
Justin Rodriguez
>Director and screenwriters directly contradict each other
Yeah they had no clue what was going one
Aiden Sanchez
Even if 9/11 never happened, we're supposed to believe that Cap just stayed in the kitchen and made Peggy sandwiches for 50 years and never thought to mention to her that the organization she's running has been infiltrated by Hydra? We're supposed to be believe Cap is happy to sit on the couch and watch the game while he's aware that his buddy is being tortured and is eventually going to be brainwashed into killing Howard and orphaning his child?
Also is makes the kiss with Sharon even weirder than it already was, which I didn't think was possible.
They could have found a more narratively satisfying way to kill or bench Cap.
I’ll take the alternative timeline one because if Steve did indeed is in the same timeline that means he looked the other way
Tyler Gonzalez
Its really simple. As long as every infinity gem is returned back to the moment it were taken, the alternate dark timeline will be course corrected as the original endgame timeline.
>So what happens to old Cap? He lives in a no thanos, no gamora and no nebula timeline until he comes back to the endgame timeline. Once he does, thanos, gamora and nebula come back to the past. >That theory is fake news. Cap waited, he didn't use the time machine. The writers said it. The writers theorized it, they didn't actually said its set in stone. Also, think about it: if Old cap uses the time machine right there, and Hulk uses the time machine along with him... To which past do they travel? can old cap go back to where he danced with Peggy, along with the Hulk? So, would they be 3 caps? 1 frozen, one dancing with Peggy and the old cap that just returned? If so, why would the Hulk be allowed to go back in a timeline where there was no thanos, no gamora and no nebula? The time flows in a magic stream as mentioned by the ancient one. If two persons travel together, they can go to the same exact point in time and space within that line, they can't travel one to the orange timeline and one to the black timeline. >but it makes no sense, why would returning the gems just fix magically the timeline. Mind gem was in a scepter, space in a cube... they need them to be there The movie said, once they return it to the exact same time, the dark timelines are course corrected. Is it magic? maybe. Is it writers incompetence? most likely. Does it matter? not really.
Liam Moore
They were into each other and Steve is going to remember when he put his tongue on her when he sees that little girl.
Camden Collins
if thanos traveled to the future and got snapped, how did he fight the avengers in the past? or was he an alternate universe thanos whose universe just goes on without a thanos, gamora, nebula, and whoever else came with him?
Benjamin Lee
>Once he does, thanos, gamora and nebula come back to the past They were dusted bitch
Brandon Reyes
How the fuck do you release basically one of the biggest movies of all time and not give a fuck about one of the biggest plot points in the movie? Neither the writers nor the directors know how time travel works in this movie, the fans have been arguing about it since the movie came out, and the physicists that were actually consulted were clearly ignored for some of the scenes. It's really not that hard to write time travel flicks, it's insultingly frustrating how little effort went into this plot device.
Christopher Brown
Then how was Steve able to fight himself in the 2012 timeline and why wasn’t killing baby Thanos an option? One timeline theory is contradicted several times in their own film
Then again this film was written like shit and they know that, now they’re back pedaling on Thanos destroying the gems
Asher Collins
>He lives in a no thanos, no gamora and no nebula timeline until he comes back to the endgame timeline. so he marries a peggy who was already married? gtfo
Brandon Miller
if the shawarma is the food of the avengers. What is the food of the Justice League?
Henry Brooks
The directors know. Their explanation complies with the rules set.
How would a director know more about the story than the writers?
Colton Harris
>The biggest MCU film to date drops a little over a week ago and people are still talking about it! >This makes me mad!
Camden Rivera
>9/11 never happened in the MCU Tony Stark is with American forces waging war in Afghanistan in the first Iron Man movie when his escort gets ambushed and he gets kidnapped by the mujahadeen. American deployment in Afghanistan is a direct result of 9/11 and no amount of fanon will change that.
Noah Kelly
Watch the movie again, Bucky noticed the old man in the bench before Steve went back to the past, and is him who tell them to go there, Cap waited.
Nathaniel Taylor
Why didn't Bucky get the shield?
Brandon Powell
>purposefully ignores the purpose of a director
You do know writers work around what a director wants right?
Gabriel Morales
Because Bucky wants to chill on a farm in Wakanda with his plums and goats.
Caleb Cox
He still would have left another Cap frozen in the ice and stolen his girl.
Really there's no way he looks good with this.
Although the fact that Peggy's husband was always kept secretive and these guys wrote all the Cap moves makes me feel like that was probably what they intended all along.
Ryan Rodriguez
Cause they think they can repeat Black Panther with Black Captain America lol
Isaac Barnes
It’s really neat how so many of the audience are just like Rhodey and Scott not comprehending different idea of time travel than the Back to the Future method. Very meta of the movie writing.
Juan Phillips
You do know that the writer writes the story and the director adapts it, right? The writers for Endgame have been a part of the MCU more consistently and longer than the Russos.
Nicholas Perry
Also, directors do just that; they direct the production. They don't always need to know every aspect of the story, they just have to add notes to the script and give one of the drafts the stamp of approval. Director is more of a production title than storytelling position.
t. filmmaker
Alexander Reed
You do know directors don’t have to do what the writers want right? Joss whedon basically wrote over the avengers 1 script himself, longevity means nothing
Ian Ramirez
>>"That is our theory," he says when asked if there were two Captain Americas in existence for a time. "We are not experts on time travel, but the Ancient One specifically states that when you take an Infinity Stone out of a timeline it creates a new timeline. So Steve going back and just being there would not create a new timeline. So I reject the "Steve is in an alternate reality" theory."
I’ve seen his input, he’s right. Still doesn’t mean directors aren’t aware of the story, it was alternate reality, get over it
Camden Young
S E E T H I N G
Jace Stewart
Retard
Christian Perez
I don't get how people didn't understand what was going on when they said it right in the movie.
Samuel Price
>it was alternate reality, get over it The writers specifically stated it wasnt. Owned.
Colton Jenkins
I literally made .webms of the scene when i found a rip with closed captioning on it and these fucking idiots were still disagreeing with it. They were actively disagreeing WITH THE MOVIE, about how THE MOVIE ITSELF WORKS.
Yea Forums is a board of absolute fucking retards, understand that.
It’s been disputed in their own movie and by other people on the production. Cope
Angel Davis
How fucking dense do yo have to be? There are TWO steves,one frozen,the other banging his waifu. He probably decided to lay low and get a new identity, by the time the frozen cap gets unfrozen the other cap is an old man,even if they crossed eachother frozen cap wouldn't recognize himself. Its not that hard to understand
Carter Powell
A magic space rock wizard literally explains how it works and a science man not only accepts what she says but actively works with the rules he's now been given to come up with a solution that invalidates multiple timelines from existing.
Thanks for that, I was briefly considering if I'm the retard until I saw that webm
Joshua Lewis
Yea Forums is extremely caught up on Banner saying going to the past doesnt alter your past even though he was speaking about experience and perception, not actual tangible reality.
They also seem to think going back in the past means you somehow overwrite yourself from the past and become your past self i think. They completely misunderstood that line and refused to try and look at it from how it was actually intended.
Bentley Russell
Then how is nebula still alive dipshit?
Aaron Sanchez
Because past nebula, thanos, and gamora were from an alternate timeline, that alternate timeline just doesnt exist anymore because cap fixed it. They werent effected because they were removed from that timeline.
Whats so hard to understand about that?
Hunter Nelson
>I’ve seen his input, he’s right. I'm one guy >Still doesn’t mean directors aren’t aware of the story I really don't see how or why you're trying to convince me that the directors have a better grasp on how time travel works than the guys who wrote it. And I'm not sitting here trying to defend the writers, in this scenario both parties should have worked a little bit harder.
Cooper Thompson
So cap captured loki?
Cameron Carter
Timelines are not fixed/erased because you put back a stone. It just prevents those timelines from having bad endings as a result of a stone being missing. Time is altered the minute you are somewhere you’re not supposed to be. Ala cap existing in the 40’s despite being frozen in ice at the time. Literally was specified in the movie by the same space wizard you keep mentioning
>ancient one not having the time stone wouldn’t of been able to defeat dormammu
Camden Nguyen
>both parties should have worked a little bit harder
We’re agreed there, this was carelessly written in any event regardless
Eli Edwards
>Have one mode of time travel established throughout the movie >Intrduce a Harry-Potter-style stable time loop at the end >Not even in communication with the directors about what the scene meant, the directors have a totally different interpretation of the scene you wrote Wow, these guys are hacks.
Jacob Allen
>"That is our theory," he says when asked if there were two Captain Americas in existence for a time. "We are not experts on time travel, but the Ancient One specifically states that when you take an Infinity Stone out of a timeline it creates a new timeline. So Steve going back and just being there would not create a new timeline. So I reject the "Steve is in an alternate reality" theory."
>"I do believe that there is simply a period in world history from about '48 to now where there are two Steve Rogers," he continues, further confusing matters. "And anyway, for a large chunk of that one of them is frozen in ice. So it's not like they'd be running into each other."
I knew it.
I KNEW IT! He's in the same timeline, he never left. He just waited 70 years then walked to the park and sat on that bench.
The only, uh, problem is, where did he get that shield? I guess he could have had Stark repair it.
By bringing the infinity stones to their original place the original timeline gets fixed, the first timeline split was where they got the tesseract and the time gem.
Joseph Ross
Damn, what a shit movie. The directors and the writers can't even agree on what the fuck is going on.
Jordan Walker
user you're literally fucking wrong and the writers straight up said you are. Look once again at how its explained: &They are erased. You have a horrifically misguised misinterpretation of a childishly simple exchange because you're a fucking moron.
Once again, if her timeline was already distinct, it wouldnt be a fucking branch or split timeline, it would just be one timeline, thus no fucking need to demonstrate how time splits because it WOULDNT be splitting.
God damn you're a retard.
Andrew Williams
>where did he get that shield He stole it from 2012 cap probably. It doesnt matter because once the stones are put back, time corrects itself.
Thomas Hughes
>>if thanos traveled to the future and got snapped, how did he fight the avengers in the past? >or was he an alternate universe thanos whose universe just goes on without a thanos, gamora, nebula, and whoever else came with him? Its both. Its an alternate timeline thanos but that timeline was only created by removing a stone, and ceased to exist upon return of the stone.
Gavin Moore
That's not... god how can people continually misunderstand how it works. I blame that ancient one speech.
Stealing the shield from 2012 cap means that that cap doesn't have a shield going forward which creates a new timeline and leaves a cap with no shield.
William King
B O I L I N G
WebM fag, you were suicidal when the Russo’s said you were wrong and hid for days before you got your “one timeline” explanation given some credit by the writers
Jonathan Allen
>I blame that ancient one speech. YOU MEAN THE FUCKING SCENE THAT EXPLICITLY DELIBERATELY TELLS YOU HOW IT ACTUALLY WORKS?
>Stealing the shield from 2012 cap means that that cap doesn't have a shield going forward which creates a new timeline and leaves a cap with no shield. It doesnt, because only the stones create new timelines. Once he leaves that time period after returning them, the timeline reverts to how its supposed to be.
What.
Adam Morales
Why did they do time travel? Holy shit, even they don't know how their rules work. Retcon this shit ASAP
Jonathan Hughes
>Stephen McFeely: So for us the strongest thing we could do, and the most helpful thing we could do, is to operate under some kind of branch reality, so that the things that have already happened ... which is what ... again, it's time travel which is humanly impossible, but a number of physicists had told us it's much more likely we would operate in a branch reality than a singular timeline. So that's the floor for the time travel conversation.
>Christopher Markus: That is our theory. We are not experts on time travel, but the Ancient One specifically states that when you take an Infinity Stone out of a timeline it creates a new timeline. So Steve going back and just being there would not create a new timeline. So I reject the "Steve is in an alternate reality" theory.
McFeely says it's a branched reality while Markus says it's a single reality. Given the events of the movie, I'm inclined to say it's a branched reality but they really need to sort that out.
Bentley Peterson
The issue with all this "well real physicists" say bullshit is they said that time is governed by magic space rocks in this movie so none of that fucking matters anymore.
Kayden Stewart
>he’s caps locking again
Kek
Angel Moore
Yes, we're overflowing with awesome comics every week, why aren't we talking about them?!
Henry Bennett
>physicist consultants They had consultants for something they completely made up out of their asses?
Jose Howard
Read this and kill your self Not even the writers can agree with each other on what it was, shut the fuck up baka
Brandon Green
>writers went with the cap was always there ending >he let 9/11 and other atrocities happen for titties
Yikes. No matter what, the ending is fucked.
Anthony Diaz
>The issue with all this "well real physicists" say bullshit It's time travel so it's all bullshit but it still has to have internally consistent rules. You can't say "changing the past doesn't change the future" then the next say "except with Cap, that's a closed loop." It totally wrecks the timeline Flashpoint-style.
Joshua Howard
>You can't say "changing the past doesn't change the future" then the next say "except with Cap, that's a closed loop." I dont understand why you people keep saying this as if those two things are mutually exclusive.
Cap went back in time because Cap already went back in time and was always there, so nothing is changed.
Ethan Gomez
>one writer says it's a branched reality >the director say that it's a branched reality >one stupid writer says it's not Jee I WONDER what's the true
Ryan Bennett
>Once he leaves that time period after returning them, the timeline reverts to how its supposed to be.
It does.
Now, think about the scene with Loki. They never removed a time gem from that time period. The time gem stayed in that time period, with Loki. They went back to 1960, removed the gem, Steve instantly puts it back, shield uses it for tests in the 90s and gives Carol her powers, Loki and Thanos use it to invade earth, then Tony and Scott fuck up and let Loki escape with the space gem.
Nothing they do at any point fixes this. Returning the gems doesn't fix it, they already returned the gem, they returned it sixty years before this happened.
Loki can't both be taken to asgard and imprisoned and and escape with the space gem and never be imprisoned. Thanos cant disappear in 2012, die, and then be involved in the events in Infinity War in 2017. Things like this create new timelines INDEPENDENT of the ones you create by removing the gem. You can create them both ways and the ones you create that you didn't create by removing a gem DONT GET FIXED by returning a gem because that's not what created them. Changing events created them.
Michael Ross
>cap always let 9/11 happen
But y
Ryan Lopez
They dont have to fix it you idiot. Time fixes itself, it becomes how it originally was supposed to be. What is so difficult to understand about this?
Its a cosmic in-canon retcon.
Easton Jones
I love how one timeline fag came in sperging about how dumb /co is for saying alternate reality and then when someone posted the full answer he tucks tail and leaves again like a faggot
John Collins
obsessed
Ryder Ward
>Now, think about the scene with Loki. They never removed a time gem from that time period Didn't they take the Mind gem from there?
Chase Myers
>Time fixes itself, it becomes how it originally was supposed to be
Just... try and think it through. I realize it's confusing because of the way they presented it.
They returned the gem SIXTY YEARS before Loki escaped. It had already been returned, half a century before Loki escaped. Nothing they did, at any point, prevented or reset Loki's escape.
Josiah Bell
But Peggy wasn't married to Cap, she was married to some guy Cap saved. Unless she was lying and Cap was just hiding from himself the whole time, he definitely changed the timeline. Really need an official word on this.
Xavier Hughes
Delusional
Dominic Morgan
WHICH DOESNT MATTER.
BECAUSE ONCE THE STONES ARE RETURNED AND THEY LEAVE, THAT NEVER HAPPENED TO BEGIN WITH.
IT SNAPS BACK TO HOW IT ORIGINALLY WAS.
Luis James
They took the scepter and returned it. This fixes the split FROM REMOVING THE GEM. It doesn't fix the split from Loki escaping. They never even try to fix it.
Leo Harris
There is no split from Loki escaping because Loki never time travelled with the cosmic cube.
Adrian Wilson
We did get official word. The writers say it was a loop where Cap was there the entire time, the directors say it was alternate timeline shit.
The writers are more believable because cap not returning to the platform would break the rules they established for returning to the present literally every other time they time travel.
Adam Cook
>There is no split from Loki escaping Loki escaping IS the split. Loki didn't escape in the original timeline, he was imprisoned in Asgard.
Jordan Hughes
Didn't peggy have a non cap husband that people knew?
Kevin Allen
I wonder if this is what the show will be about. Cosmic Cube Loki's Crazy Adventure
Benjamin Murphy
That doesnt matter because he didnt time travel. Once they put the stones back and leave, he never escaped to begin with because the time travel never occurred because its the original reality again. Its completely negated. 1 - 1 = 0
No, she only vaguely referred to him, theres no concrete details.
Easton Anderson
Except that’s not what the writers said One, uno, 1, writer said it was looped.
Grayson Campbell
Those two dont contradict eachother you know.
Daniel Reed
What would returning the stones accomplish? In that timeline Loki would still escape which is different from what happened in the original timeline. That's a split.
Cameron Fisher
He didn't steal the girl. It's a stable time loop. There are no paradoxes created because Peggy always secretly married Steve from the future.
Robert Myers
>In that timeline Loki would still escape which is different from what happened in the original timeline. That's a split. Except he didnt. Once the stones are put back, it becomes one timeline again, which means Loki never escaped.
Matthew Davis
>one guy says the timelines branched out >other guy says it’s just one looping timeline
>NUH-UH!!!
Brandon Moore
>They wrote the thing, so I believe them over the directors. In any case, it's fairly obvious that a split reality is created if someone changes something in the past or removes a stone, but it's entirely possible to go back to the past, change nothing, and keep things as they always were in canon, which does not create an alt reality. Steve did just that. This is completely stupid because not changing marginally the past doesnt mean the past wasnt changed. Did he ate a single cookie? Past changed. The universe has one less cookie.
Jason Brown
>Those two dont contradict eachother you know. They do contradict each other. One writer is saying branch reality and the other writer is saying it's a single timeline.
Xavier Adams
Timeline branches when you take a stone. I never said time didnt branch in the movie, what i said was those branches cease to exist when you put the stone back, because thats what the movie says is happening.
Oliver White
Think about it. Cap returns the scepter in that timeline. How does that change Loki stealing the Tesseract and escaping? Returning the stones doesn't fix that branch.
Nolan Kelly
>Time fixes itself
Did you ever think that maybe the fact that Loki, the Loki that Thanos killed in Infinity War, is getting his own tv show in the new Disney+ streaming service is a huge tell that time did NOT fix itself.
I mean I know this is confusing but some of you if you are not trolling anway are incredibly dense about this stuff.
Adrian Brown
Oh dear, he’s back to Caps Lock. Pack it up folks, this thread’s going nowhere fast.
Sebastian Flores
>>Think about it. Cap returns the scepter in that timeline. How does that change Loki stealing the Tesseract and escaping? Returning the stones doesn't fix that branch. It doesnt fucking have to you ignoramus, once the stones are back in their correct time, the branch ceases to exist and it becomes the main timeline again.
Its a prequel.
Christian Bailey
Pro tip. Time travel is fucking stupid pretentious shit. Its always explained wrong with a lot of holes but in a way where 101 different things somehow happen because reasons so onions boy autists who think they have an IQ above 80 but really have below that think its genius. Its only good in comedy setting where it doesn't exist as a 2deep4u plot device but as a source of humor.
Nathan Harris
>once the stones are back in their correct time, the branch ceases to exist Wrong. There's no evidence of that.
Oliver Allen
>Its a prequel.
You dense motherucker.
James Thompson
Right here: and here: Theres your evidence, dipstick.
Zachary Martinez
So she had to lie in that interview saying Cap saved her husband? or she divorced the bastard and married cap later?
Nicholas Cruz
Doesn't Sam become Cap in the comics?
Ryan Wright
A lot of things can change from script to actual shooting, so I'm likely to follow the directors on this one.
Lucas Lee
>Its a prequel. Not confirmed. Most likely it's a show about the Loki that steals the Tesseract.
How many times does this board have to say that the stones being put back DOESN’T erase timelines. It just fixes them so they’re not fubar’d without having them. The movie never once said those realities are deleted the minute a stone is returned
Stop being literal with the AO’s explanation
Christopher Adams
You still don't understand the Ancient One's diagram and still forcing the single timeline theory. Sad.
Anthony Baker
>Stop being literal with a literal explanation of how it works
>So Steve going back and just being there would not create a new timeline.
Then why doesn't 2023 Nebula disappear when she shoots 2014 Nebula? Just messing with the past changes it. If they truly wanted it to be the prime timeline Steve couldn't interact with anyone or anything, let alone Peggy.
Hunter Howard
So is Thanos erased in all timelines or is just 2014 Thanos that doesn’t exist? Because by 2012 he’s still around
Daniel Reyes
user her explanation was extremely simple.
Stones create time. Stones split time. Put a stone back fixes time.
Because they WERE from an alternate branched timeline, but that timeline ceased to be at the end of he movie.
Jonathan Robinson
>writers explicitly say it's a branch reality and not a single timeline >some retard on Yea Forums say it's a single timeline
Oh no.
Jayden Hernandez
Perhaps we're misunderstanding eachother.
Im not saying that no branches form at all, im saying that the branches are temporary.
Ryan Campbell
>a literal explanation of how it works
That you keep purposefully misintrpreting that at this point I can’t tell is an elaborate trolling or outright sub iq
Chase Brown
>>writers explicitly say it's a branch reality and not a single timeline >>some retard on Yea Forums say it's a single timeline
Carter Gray
Time DOES branch, but the branches can be erased by fixing the cause of what branches them, which are the infinity stones. The infinity stones control the flow of time.
Hudson Collins
>Because they WERE from an alternate branched timeline, but that timeline ceased to be at the end of he movie.
No it doesn't, Hulk explains time travel works like the multiverse in this film, each journey creates a new timeline. Removing a stone from a timeline, creates an unstable one, that's why Steve has to return them all at the end of the film. I'm not a comic fan, I haven't watched all the MCU films, but even as a casual I understood the two different rules being in play and how they don't affect one another, but one affects the well-being of a given timeline.
Andrew Diaz
Bucky had it first
Charles Johnson
The Hulks explanation was based on perception and experience, and Ancient One says otherwise as to how reality itself actually works.
Noah Torres
>Time DOES branch, but the branches can be erased by fixing the cause of what branches them, which are the infinity stones Obviously it didn't because 2014 Gamora will be in Guardians 3.
Mason Ward
She was talking about something that would impact her own timeline. She even makes the distinction while explaining why removing a stone was dangerous.
Luke Lewis
>>Obviously it didn't because 2014 Gamora will be in Guardians 3. This isnt an issue. She wasnt in the branched timeline when it was erased.
Grayson Rivera
Once more, if she was talking scrictly about her own timeline, a diagram of how time splits wouldnt be necessary nor would it make any sense.
Connor Sanders
>This isnt an issue. She wasnt in the branched timeline when it was erased. So? She still isn't a part of this timeline. If what you're saying is true and returning the stones magically fixes the timeline, then 2014 Gamora would simply vanish because original Gamora is dead. You're wrong about this, just admit it.
Grayson Evans
Create two folders on your computer, each has a gamora file in it.
Move gamora 2 to folder one, then delete folder 2. Did gamora 2 get deleted?
Kevin Green
>Movie shows multiple timelines >Ancient One says it's multiple timelines >Banner says it's multiple timelines >Directors say it's multiple timelines >Screenwriters say it's multiple timelines >Some retard on Yea Forums says it's a single timeline
Dominic Harris
Look, I get you're an idiot, so I'm going to try to explain it again for you, The ancient one is talking that way because without the time stone, Dormammu would invade this reality and break shit, Strange needs the stone to "defeat him" hence why she says dooming her reality, so Banner says if I returning before that event it will be as it never left, that shit doesn't apply to the other stones, except maybe the mind stone with Ultron, Vision and the Twins. So for time to correct itself Cap has to catch Loki in 2012, bring him and the cube to Thor and get the fuck out of there, probably he did that, but still him being with Peggy is the most stupid thing in the movie because it creates a huge paradox or make him look like a shithead
Adam Stewart
I think the point of contention here is we both think theres branches forming but we disagree on whether those are erased by putting the stones back or stay. The movie, ancient one, and banner say erased. The writers agree with cap doing a loop, which follows this.
Jeremiah Rodriguez
But it’s the same as the interpretation that Christopher Markus, a writer on the movie, uses in the OP article.
Levi Miller
>Movie shows multiple timelines >Ancient One says it's multiple timelines >Banner says it's multiple timelines >Directors say it's multiple timelines >Screenwriters say it's multiple timelines >Some retard on Yea Forums says it's a single timeline
Colton Nelson
If she was talking about her reality, which according to you by that point is already 100% separate, there'd be literally no point to the diagram she creates nor does it make any sense with what she's trying to say. Time would not split any further, it would just be the future of her own timeline, no branches, no splinters.
Angel Johnson
Oh no, his record broke.
Isaiah Moore
>Movie shows multiple timelines >Ancient One says it's multiple timelines >Banner says it's multiple timelines >Directors say it's multiple timelines >Screenwriters say it's multiple timelines >Some retard on Yea Forums says it's a single timeline
Ryder Reyes
>So for time to correct itself Cap has to catch Loki in 2012, bring him and the cube to Thor and get the fuck out of ther No it doesnt. Simply putting the stones back is enough because the stones create the flow of time and would correct it back to one timeline again.
>the retard spams his copypasta instead of arguing
Landon Sanders
>Movie shows multiple timelines >Ancient One says it's multiple timelines >Banner says it's multiple timelines >Directors say it's multiple timelines >Screenwriters say it's multiple timelines >Some retard on Yea Forums says it's a single timeline
Brandon Fisher
This is just sad.
Aiden Foster
This is why you don't fuck with time travel in your stories, kids.
Adam Robinson
>Movie shows multiple timelines >Ancient One says it's multiple timelines >Banner says it's multiple timelines >Directors say it's multiple timelines >Screenwriters say it's multiple timelines >Some retard on Yea Forums says it's a single timeline
I can't wait for Kang the Conqueror to be the new multi-movie Thanos level villain leading up to Avengers 6. They will introduce him as someone able to stop the heroes from using time travel, and by the end of the Avengers 6, time travel will be destroyed just like the Infinity Stones were, preventing that plot point in future movies.
Robert Wilson
third possibility: everything after old cao shows up is na alternate timeline.Falcon doesnt gain the shield in the main timeline.
Ayden Moore
Not a stable time loop if you go by what the Russos said. According to them, Steve went into an alternate timeline and stayed there. Allowed the Steve of that timeline to stay frozen while he got together with the Peggy of that timeline. And when its all said and done, he abandoned that timeline and returned to his original timeline. Basically abandoning his children and grandchildren. And who knows it that timeline's Steve ever got founded and thawed.
Daniel Hernandez
Writers said it was a loop.
Jace Lee
Both are possible, but I'd lean towards the first one. That also explains why Cap couldn't stop any world atrocities, it would not change his own past, and would only create a split timeline. He had to live his life in a way that wouldn't contridict his own knowledge of history. But acting like a retired war vet allows for the stable time loop.
Henry Reyes
Is this the board where everybody is talking about time travel in endgame? Somebody explain it for me please. Apparently I went to the bathroom right when Banner started explaining it
I know, I said according to the Russos, it what happened. Which is pretty retarded either way. Hence why you don't do time travel plot, especially if someone plans to stay in the past.
Christian Thompson
Yeah, but how does he return without using the time platform? That was shown to be how you return to a specific spot in every other instance. Not to mention Tony says that traversing to a desired destination requires careful plotting and navigation. How does Old Cap do that on his own without Tony or Banner to roadmap the way back?
Jacob King
>implying Kennedy's death wasn't a good thing
Asher Lewis
Well, is basically "Infinity Stones" ain't gonna explain shit, because apparently there's no butterfly effect, no consequences and no stakes
Andrew Diaz
I unironically love the idea of a time traveling villain bringing back all the dead and defeated villains from previous movies, similar to bringing all the heroes and supporting armies in to Endgame.
Bentley Allen
It doesn't, unless he does what he and Tony did when visiting Howard Stark. So he waited.
Brayden Evans
Not to mention they also make a point that they cant time travel without a platform, which is why they try to use the ant-man van as an emergency one.
Wyatt Reed
They do and the consultants rpetty much agree that Back to the Future time travel laws are pure bullshit
Thomas Morgan
Why does it seem like Yea Forums cares about this so much more than the directors & writers do, seeing as they can't even bother to be consistent with each other on what happened?
Josiah Clark
Then how the fuck they go from 2012 to the 70's? see, this is why I hate stupid people making up rules about Time Travel and break them in the same movie.
Lincoln Thompson
Should time travel never be a plot point?
It always just creates more questions, in any setting.
Michael Hill
I guess because they were already hooked up to the time machine or some shit. Thats poorly explained, but the only time they're ever shown time travelling its initiated through a time platform and they only ever return to the present through the time platform, so Cap secretly being in an alternate timeline but not popping back onto the platform is total horseshit.
Owen Howard
Back to the Future is pretty straight-forward also FAQ about Time Travel and I guess When we first met too.
Christian Morgan
Bill and Ted has perfect time travel.
As does Terminator 1.
Days of Future Past's time travel also makes more sense because nothing is actually travelling through time, its entirely psychological time travel so its as if the memories of Wolverines future self spontaneously generated in his head
Thomas Allen
Oh I assumed doing anything makes an alternate timeline and they just were using the stones as an example because that's what they came there for
Ian Lopez
He can still "Return to that exact time", but since he's already there, why bother making the jump?
Kevin Scott
y'all niggas are too dumb to understand literally just fucking DBZ time travel shit fuck how are you so dumb shounentards can understand this shit
Jackson Thompson
DBZ time travel is convoluted stupid bullshit written by someone who stopped giving a shit about good writing 35 years ago.
John Clark
you go to the past, you make an alternate timeline that fuckin' simple literal shounentards can comprehend this
Matthew Lewis
Nope, assuming something is not the same as questioning it. Also FUCK YOU WEEB
Ryder King
Homestuck has perfect time travel. It's actually very similar to the time travel in MCU as it turns out.
David Harris
The movie states otherwise.
Brayden Adams
Many people would say you were correct.
Blake Gonzalez
I think it makes sense if the bracelets only let you move backwards and the platform is necessary for going forward. Then Old Cap would just have to wait for anytime past 2023 and he could go back without the platform
Matthew Cook
they show, multiple times, that this is how it works
the movie shows if you take a stone out, it dooms the timeline to shit like dormamu that's the problem
the baseball glove stays in the future thanos gets dusted in the future gamora (2014) stays in the future cap brings a new shield back putting the stones back doesn't make the timeline snap back, it keeps it from being doomed
there are no loops or anything
Juan Clark
If the Ancient One scene and Cap scene werent in the movie, there'd be no questioning how this works.
But they inserted a way to fix divergent timelines and had Cap pull off a time loop, and have characters like Thanos and Tony imply its the same timeline, so its all fucked up.
That would end up being a different timeline though.Or rather it'd be the future of the temporary timeline he created by travelling backwards and then it'd be the past version of that fake future.
Julian Parker
So Hawkeye stealing his sons baseball glove didn't actually make another timeline without that baseball glove
Gabriel Flores
>>the movie shows if you take a stone out, it dooms the timeline to shit like dormamu No, it says if you take the stone out, it splits the timeline.
That statement about dark forces comes afterwards and is completely unrelated to that initial statement of how it works, see: &
Zachary Turner
It's literally what happened
Lucas Ortiz
The timeline splits into a DOOMED one, where Dormamu wins. That's the fucking problem. That's what your fucking webms show. How are you this dense.
Nathaniel Gonzalez
Because the ancient one knows Strange will need the stone to defeat Dormammu
John Brooks
>Yeah, but how does he return without using the time platform? That was shown to be how you return to a specific spot in every other instance. Not to mention Tony says that traversing to a desired destination requires careful plotting and navigation. The important question should be how did Steve return all the Infinity Stones and Mjolnir to its exact timeline if he only used the Time Platform once? Would he need to return to his main timeline and use the Time Platform again to return to the specific timeline for the Infinity Gems and Mjolnir? He would need to return at least 3 times to return everything to its specific timeline.
Grayson Cruz
He specifically says "nasty alternate realities." This means doomed timelines. This isn't closing off any loops, it's keeping things from getting fucked over in those timelines.
Levi Price
So there is another tineline with the only difference being Hawkeyes sons baseball glove vanished?
Kevin Lewis
user, stop for a minute. That isnt what she said. She said, plainly, removing a stone splits the timeline. Thats it. Yes it would doom hers but those mechanics are completely unrelated.
As for: > >>the baseball glove stays in the future >thanos gets dusted in the future >gamora (2014) stays in the future >cap brings a new shield back These are irrelevant, because the only thing shown to actually split time are the stones.
Those arent loops, they're clipped branches. Cap is a loop.
Easton Cooper
Still better than this confusing shit in Endgame.
Bentley Moore
Yes.
Carson Taylor
But yall are telling me only removing stones causes alternate dimensions
David Morris
Literally two of the stones prevent bad shit, the rest cause bad shit.
Eli Gonzalez
The fatal flaw in this logic is theres a major scene in Doctor Strange where she explains that she cant see events past her own death.
Charles Smith
Only one retard is saying that.
MCU time travel is alternate realities.
Jaxon Flores
Splits it into a doomed timeline. Hence why it's all black and shit. Watch your fucking webm again you absolute moron. It means dooming her reality, because there's no infinity stone in there to stop Dormamu. They are already in another timeline.
Lincoln Collins
So the writers are split, but the directors are saying the branches and Cap traveling from his retirement branch after the case. Seems like unless Marvel comes down with a final word like they did with what years everything happened, that the directors' words are to be taken as to what happened.
That said, this indecisiveness really just makes Endgame even more of a shitshow.
Ethan Fisher
If they were already an alternate timeline there'd be no fucking split you dipshit, it'd just be the future of her entirelly distinct timeline. No branching, no splitting, nothing, the diagram wouldnt be necessary, and in fact would actively refute that point.
She also cant see past her own death, which is when Dormammu is defeated with the time zone, so good job retard your entire point hinges on something that a prior movie told you she cant actually foresee.
Adam Jones
Literally DBZ rules. The simplest time travel there is.
Jacob Cox
Ok one final question. Did Steve stop 9/11?
Nathaniel Sanchez
>that the directors' words are to be taken as to what happened The problem is the directors words break the rules of time travel the movie established.
>DBZ time travel >Simple
Its nonsense retard bullshit that only works if you write a fucking essay about it because Toriyam didnt give a single fuck.
Luke Ortiz
>awesome Don't lie to people. Comics have been a shitshow for over a decade.
Bentley Miller
The SPLIT comes from DOOMING it you dense moron. THIS IS WHY SHE'S TELLING BRUCE HE CAN'T TAKE THE STONE. BECAUSE STRANGE NEEDS TO BEAT DORMAMU.
Landon Reed
Why? He didn't change anything because things worked out and he didn't want to fuck with them.
No 9/11 means no middle east conflicts, which means Tony Stark never gets taken to that cave where he becomes Ironman ushers in a new age of heroes and eventually saves the entire universe. He remains a drunken careless playboy who probably eventually get sucessfully knocked off by Stane.
Same with Hydra in Shield. It sucks but they eventually defeated them. Why mess with a good thing?
An important lesson Cap learned in Endgame is that sometimes you indeed need to trade lives and sacrifice people. He spent all of Infinity War trying to save Vision, which was futile and Thanos got the stone anyway.
So that's what he did, by letting history play out as it would, even if people would die, so the future where everything worked out eventually came to pass.
Evan Lopez
>DBZ time travel You mean time travel where alternate timelines somehow exist within one universe because theres only like 30 universes and none of them are the alternate timelines?
And also the rules change literally every single time its used?
Luke Brooks
Steve ended the Cold War, stopped 9/11, and everything else, because it was all a Hydra plot in the MCU. Prove me wrong.
Charles Martin
Yes. And that timeline is identical in every other way. Outside of silly butterfly effect contrivances where the missing baseball glove results in Hawkeye's divorce or some bullshit, you can assume that the gloveless timeline is identical, except when Hawkeye goes back in time eventually, he takes something other than the glove, creating another split ad infinitum.
OR, the glove always went missing that day, and was never explained until Hawkeye took it and realized that is why that glove disappeared that day. A stable time loop is possible in that instance because the narrative doesn't show us otherwise.
Sebastian Price
user, theres a pivotal scene in Doctor Strange where the Ancient One says she is incapable of viewing events that occur after she dies.
What you're describing happens after she dies.
Justin Barnes
But I can not
James Moore
the universes are all part of one timeline each multiple universes, split timelines
Aiden Phillips
Nigga what.
Alexander Cook
She says Dr. Strange is supposed to be the greatest of them. She knows that he needs it to beat Dormamu. No stone means there is literally no way to win. Stone means Strange CAN win.
William Kelly
Well I believe the son was using it in the beginning of the movie so it wasn't always gone
Gabriel Kelly
Could someone PLEASE explain the FUCKING ending to me??
multiple universes exist in tandem, but those universes are not caused by timeline splits, they occur because they were made by the gods
you go back in time though, that splits the timeline for all those universes
Angel Sanchez
So its nonsense.
Daniel Rivera
She is the guardian of the Stone for a reason
Justin Robinson
She doesn't need to see past it. She understands that Strange is the one who CAN beat Dormamu using the Time Stone. Removing the Time Stone means it's impossible to beat Dormamu.
Luis Garcia
The Ancient One is not aware of Doctor Strange confrontation with Dormammu. She is unable to see the events that occur after her deaths. And thus would have no way of knowing Doctor Strange's confrontation with Dormammu and the necessity of using the Time Stone in order to win.
If the Infinity Stones are anything like the comics, they serve a cosmic function for the universe and are required for the universe to continue existing. The chaos that the Ancient One spoke off might be referring to the fact that her timeline/universe would collapse onto itself without the Infinity Stones present to continue its function.
Reason why this doesn't apply to Endgame time is the fact that the Infinity Stones still exist despite the fact that Thanos destroyed them. Hence his phase "reduced to atoms". They are no longer in the form of stones but they still exist in some fashion. Just not something that one can use and abuse.
Mhmm mhmmm keep grasping at straws because you're an idiot.
Adam Mitchell
Telling him, will make it not to happen?
Nathan Evans
Unlike the infinity gems, baseball gloves are not unique in the universe. We don't know that is the same glove. We would have needed a distinguishing mark or something shown on both gloves for it not to be stable.
Easton Clark
What if we revisit the alternate timelines and find out the 2012 and 2014 timelines worked out ok but the baseball glove timeline is the most fucked up for some reason
Ayden Gutierrez
Not a very good argument there, dumb dumb.
Brandon Johnson
>Hence his phase "reduced to atoms". They are no longer in the form of stones but they still exist in some fashion. Just not something that one can use and abuse.
Molecule Man confirmed next big Avengers villain.
Leo Cox
There actually is a letter "F" on the glove the younger son is using and the glove Clint takes so it could very well be the same glove
Julian Nelson
A critical lack of America's Pastime leads young Clint Jr. to become the multiversal threat, Kang the Conqueror.
Camden Jackson
>character is incapablle of knowing how another chararacter defeats the threat >WELL ACKSUALLY WHEN SHE SAID--
Justin Perez
Maybe Clint heads to the store to buy a new glove and gets hit by a car and fucking dies and that's what starts it all
Levi Long
you just said to him to keep grasping at straws not a good argument
Levi Johnson
Yes because he's grasping at straws stating something that the character has been established as being incapable of doing.
Ryder Sanders
>And the man driving that car? >Albert Einsetin.
Jeremiah Wilson
>They were dusted bitch An the stones were removed before that. Hence, they were dusted in a dark timeline, which will be course corrected once the gems comes back to their respective times. >so he marries a peggy who was already married? gtfo No, its implied that Cap married Peggy. Doesn't said anywhere he married another man during the dark timeline. Once Cap comes back from that dark timeline, then yes she was married to the unknown man hence she never married Cap even though he is the only one that remembers it.
Kayden Evans
Director's word trumps writer's in film.
Hard to understand when compare to other mediums, but for a movie the screenplay is really just a guideline. The director has final say and makes the story what it is.
Brayden Martinez
>>Director's word trumps writer's in film. No they dont.
The movie directly contradicts the directors.
Camden Campbell
In a shared universe, any future canon trumps both. The issue is somewhat unresolved until someone decides to clarify in-universe where Cap spent several decades.
Jaxson Rodriguez
The writers admit they don't understand the time travel, they had other people who sorted out that part.
The writers are wrong, the directors are correct. Captain America lived his life in an alternate timeline. The end.
Isaiah Davis
The movie spells out word for word that you can't change the past, you only create alternate timelines.
Cap appears to contradict this in the ending, but it can be easily explained with him having just returned from a life in another timeline.
Here is the canon and confirmed version of events.
>>Cap appears to contradict this in the ending, but it can be easily explained with him having just returned from a life in another timeline. Which cannot be because it breaks all of the rules established over the rest of the movie when it comes to how they time travel.
Chase Lopez
>establish that there's no "true" time travel multiple times within movie >anytime you go backwards in time, in reality you're just going to an earlier point in an alternate reality similar to your own >"no dude he went back into his own timeline" I think this proves that the Russo's were the core creative driving force behind their movies
Tyler Wright
Its the exact opposite of that. The words of the writer outweigh and overrule the words of the director. This is true regardless of medium. The writer is the one providing the source material and building the lore. The director is just someone that interpret what they are given by the writer to the best of their ability. What the writer says regarding their works is true. What the director says regarding their interpret of the writer's work is just their opinion on the matter.
Sebastian Miller
You don't know that. There are endless ways he could have returned to his original timeline without breaking the "rules", which aren't truly established anyway. He could have returned a bit earlier, or used a time travel device in the other timeline.
What IS established is that you can't change the past, and time travel creates alternate timelines. Those are the rules that would be broken if Cap went to the past in the same timeline.
Chase Wright
Writers in the MCU do not have that kind of power, they answer to a lot of higher-ups. The writers fully admit that they don't know exactly how the time travel works, and that other people were in charge of that. Stop being retarded.
Juan Taylor
>You don't know that. There are endless ways he could have returned to his original timeline without breaking the "rules" Literally anything else is headcanon and you need to fuck off
>He could have returned a bit earlier, or used a time travel device in the other timeline. No he couldnt, the time platform needs to be active for him to return to it and only Hulk, Iron Man (dead), and Nebula (dead) know how.
That last part is retarded because he'd just end up in a different timeline.
>What IS established is that you can't change the past, and time travel creates alternate timelines. Those are the rules that would be broken if Cap went to the past in the same timeline. The movie presents the idea that this isnt exactly true.
Justin Martin
The movie states that you can't change the past. Back to the Future is a load of bullshit. Several. Fucking. Times. Removing the stones doesn't merely create an alternate reality or cause a loop, it specifically dooms it to being destroyed unless brought back to the point it was taken. It is never actually stated that the stones fix the changes made, because the changes involved in getting the stones already happened in the process of getting them.
Trying to claim otherwise is trying to handwave away that fact. The Stones don't retcon Rocket shoving the probe up Natalie Portman's ass, they don't retcon Loki escaping with the cube, they don't retcon Peter getting knocked the fuck out, they don't retcon Thanos mass-producing Pym Particles. To claim this is to ignore what the movie establishes about those events. They all happened.
Xavier Ross
>it specifically dooms it to being destroyed unless brought back to the point it was taken No it doesnt, all thats stated is it splits it. This is pure headcanon.
Watch the movie again faggot.
>It is never actually stated that the stones fix the changes made, because the changes involved in getting the stones already happened in the process of getting them. See:
Jonathan Thompson
It was also established that Steve need to return via the Time Platform if he were to return to his original timeline. But him not requiring the Time Platform and him just sitting on the stump as an old man waiting raises many questions and disproves the alternate timeline theory. If the Russos simply had him returned as an old man via the Time Platform, it would had sovled a lot of this confusion.
Cameron Nelson
You are the same literal retard from the other thread. Stop posting.
No one else reply to this brainlet.
Grayson Garcia
This is never stated, and you are making things up based on assumptions.
Caleb Scott
What it fixes is preventing reality from getting destroyed. This is what she's trying to prevent, in the webms you keep linking to. You're not looking at the full conversation but instead bits and pieces. Where specifically does it state that putting the stones back undoes things like Loki's escape? It doesn't, that's the problem with your theory.
Ian James
Important distinction. You can't change your own past. You can kill Nebula from the past and it doesn't make you disappear. Killing baby Thanos doesn't undo the snap for you. But you can change an event and returning the stones doesn't stop that event from being changed for that timeline. It just won't affect you in anyway, or your future-present when you return.
Charles Morris
Explain why they always return to their original timeline via the Time Platform then? If that is untrue, they wouldn't even need the Time Platform to return.
Wyatt Powell
>Directors, some writers say is correct >Autist keeps trying to go "NOOOO ONLY MY IDEA IS CORRECT" >Even though his idea is contradicted by the movie
Logan Ward
>Where specifically does it state that putting the stones back undoes things like Loki's escape? It doesn't, that's the problem with your theory. If theres only one timeline, and putting a stone back erases the branch, then what that means is that loki never actually escaped with the cosmic cube. Think of it like Schrodingers Cat, it could be alive or dead until you observe it. When you stop observing this timeline, it stops existing.
Liam Bennett
I wish they just killed him. So it's stable time loop now and not alternate timeline? Are they changing the story with each interview?
Easton Foster
It's a sync point. It's to ensure they all get back at the same time. When Cap misses the window, there's a sound that gets made that catches Bucky's attention, which leads to him seeing Cap. Cap traveled to there like he and Tony traveled to the 70s.
Logan Sanders
Theres an entire sequence in the final fight where they try to rush the gauntlet into the X-Cons van's quantum tunnel because thats the only way to travel through time, through some form of a quantum time travel platform, and they had to try and use that as an improvised one. Theres an exchange where they talk about this.
Juan Nelson
It's not, it's only one autist that keeps trying to claim that. It's always alternate timelines.
Ryan Martinez
>there's a sound that gets made that catches Bucky's attention No there isnt.
>Cap traveled to there like he and Tony traveled to the 70s. No he doesnt.
Adrian Harris
We don't know. That's what an assumption is, it's when we don't have factual information and you pull something out of your ass. Maybe they need the platform to return without splitting the timeline. In that case, Cap can just have returned some time earlier, when Sam wasn't around. Bucky already knew what Cap was going to do, so maybe he was there when that happened.
We do have factual information that traveling to the past creates a new timeline. That is not an assumption. All theories need to adhere to this fact.
Julian Green
>Think of it like Schrodingers Cat, it could be alive or dead until you observe it. When you stop observing this timeline, it stops existing. Nowhere is this stated in the movie. This is pure headcanon.
Thomas Ramirez
That is not... what? If you want to think of it like Schrodinger's Cat, then it doesn't stop existing you doof. It exists in a state we can only guess at until we are shown it. The cat doesn't stop existing. You are thinking of object permanence. Perhaps because you are an infant.
Jackson Cox
And yet Tony and Cap time travel from 2012 to 1970 using nothing other than their suits. So you can't make definite assumptions. The gauntlet thing may have been because they had no more Pym particles. We simply do not know what exactly makes the machines important, and you can't debunk factual information with assumptions.
Thomas Taylor
So, "one-timeline autist" here. I want to point out im the only one in these arguments who's ever actually had a camrip of the movie up and running while i source, quote, screencap, and take videos of to back up and cite my arguments.
They were already in the midst of time travel through a time machine, which guides them. He'd have to do this anyway at the end to return all the stones, but again, the only way they're EVER shown returning to the present is through the platforms
Logan Morales
You have autism that hinders your self-awareness, so I'll give you some help.
You are accusing others of speculation and headcanon, when everything you are claiming yourself is not just headcanon, but headcanon that contradicts the word of the directors AND the characters in the movie.
You should stop posting.
Julian James
Man, she's great. I didn't care for this movie much first time I saw it, think after Infinity War/Endgame maybe I should give it another try.
Connor Mitchell
All ive been doing is citing the movie and telling you exactly what the movie is showing and saying is happening. Ive inserted no headcanon. None.
Gabriel Bennett
This is why you dont just make a movie whit tine travel You make it about time travel or you fuck up
Henry Robinson
>the only way they're EVER shown returning to the present is through the platforms Or wait there, that's how time works too. and that's how he was there.
Luis Reyes
Just had an odd side thought. If the stones create the flow of time and shape the universe, shouldn't they affect the Quantum realm? Give it some kind of structure due to the stone's presence, even if only briefly?
Ethan Butler
You have also been ignoring statements made in the movie itself and statements made by writers and directors that contradict your idea. You've been forcing it because you can't accept that the one they go with makes more sense in the grand scheme of things.
Isaiah James
No i havent.
You mean by aging to the present? Yeah thats obviously what the movie was showing.
Joseph Green
But you are misunderstanding the meaning of the characters' words. The Ancient One's way of explaining things is misleading, and the Hulk's method is somewhat confusing, so this is not a surprise when you are not very aware. In fact, even the writers don't understand the time travel in their own movie (which is why they had to hire some experts to handle it) and that is probably why the characters explain it poorly.
But whether or not the timelines get erased when the stones are returned is not all that important - the overall intention comes through clear as day: It's an alternate timelines view of time, and you can NEVER change your own past. Meaning Captain America CANNOT have grown old in his own original timeline.
Jeremiah Lewis
>They were already in the midst of time travel through a time machine, which guides them. Never once is this stated. >but again, the only way they're EVER shown returning to the present is through the platforms This is pure conjecture.
You want pure conjecture that makes more sense AND lines up with what the fucking directors claimed? Steve met with a younger Hank Pym and explained he time traveled. Hank Pym build a time machine of his own and was able to send Steve into the future.
>It is never actually stated that the stones fix the changes made Bruce literally said this when he mentioned bringing the gems back. He didn't use the word "fix" but they never stated the problem to begin with.
The movie said back to the future is bullshit. So imagine bttf2 scenario, if they got the 7 gems from the past, return to present and left them there AND decided to go to the past again... will there be 7 stones again? will they see themselves from 5 minutes ago? They don't because its not bttf2. Same reason why they don't go to the future with no stones once the succeed in the heist, they return to their own future. Taking the stones from the dark timeline makes the Old Cap scenario to happen. Once the stones are returned, the dark timeline is trimmed. Old cap returns to the orang timeline (the present).
Carson Harris
Three people. Thee random fucking people died in the Boston bombing. The way they carry on, you'd think they were a President and two others in his motorcade.
Camden Lewis
>Never once is this stated. Thats the entire fucking purpose of it you god damn moron, they spend multiple scenes telling you this.
>>This is pure conjecture. No it isnt you fucking moron. They're only shown returning to the present via the time platform. Every single time.
>You want pure conjecture that makes more sense AND lines up with what the fucking directors claimed? Steve met with a younger Hank Pym and explained he time traveled. Hank Pym build a time machine of his own and was able to send Steve into the future. Pure, unadulterated headcanon with no basis.
Lincoln Young
>Bruce literally said this when he mentioned bringing the gems back. He didn't use the word "fix" but they never stated the problem to begin with. But their entire conversation only deals with removing the stone and dooming that timeline. Not fixing the changes they already made. Never once in your webms you keep linking to do they imply reversing things like Natalie Portman getting probed by a raccoon. The exact opposite happens, in fact, given that Thanos comes to the future.
Brayden Walker
>It's an alternate timelines view of time, and you can NEVER change your own past. Meaning Captain America CANNOT have grown old in his own original timeline. Unless he was already in his own past, meaning he fulfilled a predestined time loop, thus changing nothing.
Zachary White
You're not going on dialogue or anything, only your headcanon on the events. Do you need the fucking movie script or something to explain this to you?
Elijah Powell
>Never once in your webms you keep linking to do they imply reversing things like Natalie Portman getting probed by a raccoon If you revert it back to one timeline, then that never happens. Why do you not get this.
Luis Garcia
Yes he could have. As long as he didn't change anything that would have affected his own past. It's why he lived a quiet retired life without changing world events. He did not change his own, or anyone's past, and so he could grow old in his own timeline.
Charles Green
>Unless he was already in his own past, meaning he fulfilled a predestined time loop, thus changing nothing. He wasn't. That's the thing. Peggy passed on never getting Steve dick in the main timeline. Her death scene makes this very clear.
Leo Hernandez
Faggot ive been the only one to post dialogue, scenes, clips, and screencaps from the fucking movie.
Kevin Nguyen
So alternate timeline is not the same as alternate reality? I don't understand.
The Russos say alternate timelines but the writers say time loop? What the everloving fuck. How many millions were they paid for this?
Fandango: So people are asking... Does this mean an old Captain America was hanging out this whole time while another Captain America was saving the day?
Christopher Markus: That is our theory. We are not experts on time travel, but the Ancient One specifically states that when you take an Infinity Stone out of a timeline it creates a new timeline. So Steve going back and just being there would not create a new timeline. So I reject the "Steve is in an alternate reality" theory.
I do believe that there is simply a period in world history from about '48 to now where there are two Steve Rogers. And anyway, for a large chunk of that one of them is frozen in ice. So it's not like they'd be running into each other.
So according to the writers, Cap Prime let his own self rot so he could get together with his own girl? What?
Dominic Richardson
Can't change your own past if Steve was always meant to travel back in time and marry Peggy. Steve returned without any of his time travel equipment and wasn't on the time platform when he returned. Based on established facts, whenever they return to the main timeline, they will always return on top of the time platform. But that didn't happen. Steve time traveling into the past is a stable loop.
So basically 3 timelines as a result of the Avengers time travel. The main timeline where the snap happened. The timeline where Loki escaped with the Tesseract. The timeline where Thanos and gang cease to exist since they jumped to the main timeline.
Connor Flores
>but it's entirely possible to go back to the past, change nothing, and keep things as they always were in canon, which does not create an alt reality. Steve did just that.
Absolutely not, you'd have to be shockingly retarded to believe that. Going back to the past inherently creates the alternate reality.
Blake Cook
>Her death scene makes this very clear. She had fucking alzheimers.
Jayden Peterson
HOW does that prevent it from happening? What mechanism exists that makes the Infinity Stones "revert" changes to the timeline that happen BEFORE they were taken? The only implication in the scenes you've shown is that they revert changes from AFTER they were taken, not BEFORE.
Jason Scott
Because the stones create the flow of time, they govern time, and if they revert it back to one timeline, then any changes made by time travel are therefore moot.
Nicholas Barnes
Where the fuck are you getting this?
Xavier Gutierrez
>Christopher Markus: That is our theory. We are not experts on time travel, but the Ancient One specifically states that when you take an Infinity Stone out of a timeline it creates a new timeline. So Steve going back and just being there would not create a new timeline. So I reject the "Steve is in an alternate reality" theory.
How the fuck does this retard wipe his ass in the morning?
They explicitly said there are no time loops or anything of that nature. If your understanding of what happened involves a time loop, or someone changing the past to affect the future, then you are wrong. This isn't hard.
Brody Barnes
Not if it's a 12 Monkeys kind of Travel
Jackson Collins
But how does that change what happened BEFORE they were removed, dingus? You're going off vague hand-waving bullshit. All you're doing is saying "it's magic don't think about it" while at the same time overthinking everything else.
So, has Cap been living in the past this whole time — or did he go and live in another dimension? The directors say it’s the latter. “If Cap were to go back into the past and live there, he would create a branched reality,” Joe explained. “The question then becomes, how is he back in this reality to give the shield away?” The brothers smile. “Interesting question, right?” Joe said. “Maybe there’s a story there. There’s a lot of layers built into this movie and we spent three years thinking through it, so it’s fun to talk about it and hopefully fill in holes for people so they understand what we’re thinking.”
Anthony Edwards
As explained the movie The Avengers: Endgame, going back to the past inherently creates a new reality. That's the reality the time traveler interacts with. They absolutely cannot under any circumstances interact with their own "copy" of the past, it is always a new one.
Ryan Cook
How does a photograph have Alzheimers?
Jace James
>But how does that change what happened BEFORE they were removed, dingus Because nothing they do beyond anything to do with the gems matters. It snaps back.
Dominic White
Based retard quipmeisters have no idea what's going on and sabotage their bosses by acting like they do.
Luis Lopez
>“Interesting question, right?” Joe said. “Maybe there’s a story there. There’s a lot of layers built into this movie and we spent three years thinking through it, so it’s fun to talk about it and hopefully fill in holes for people so they understand what we’re thinking.” So this means we'll get a new Cap movie? Or a Disney + series about Cap?
Dylan Martinez
And somehow no one questioned that a guy who looks exactly like Steve Rodgers is now running around?
Gabriel Wright
In the Winter Soldier, he visits Peggy and she thinks young Steve's come back from war. It's really sad.
Brandon Long
Motherfucker do you not remember the scene from Winter Soldier where Cap visits her and she has Alzheimers you absolute god damn fucking inbred neanderthal?
Christ you're a fucking idiot.
Ayden Gonzalez
>It snaps back
It absolutely does not. Why the fuck would you think that?
Nathaniel Nguyen
With $100 bills, how do you do it?
Joseph Green
Because magical space rocks that are both fundamental aspects of and manipulate reality itself are stated to control how time works.
Julian Gray
HOW does it SNAP BACK? This contradicts the very first fucking time they time travel! Hawkeye brings back the same baseball mitt his son was using at the start of the movie! And the scene in the past keeps going even after he's pulled back!
Lucas Wood
>o its as if the memories of Wolverines future self spontaneously generated in his head Thus erasing the future where they'd be sending his conscience back, but sure.
Jace Perry
Not sure about the time travel aspect of it but each Infinity Stone represent an aspect of the universe. They are required for the universe to continue to function. Take an Infinity Stone out of the timeline and it will become unstable. Put the Infinity Stone back in its original timeline and it will stabilize. Time exists because of the Time Stone. Reality exists because of the Reality Stone. Space exists because of the Space Stone.
Adam Fisher
While they're in the past, its a different past. When they leave the past, it becomes the same past again.
Its a temporary branch. A rubber band type thing.
Jaxson Cruz
THE PHOTOGRAPH YOU DUNCES NOT PEGGY HERSELF
Mason Turner
Returning the gems magically resetting the timeline is one of the funnier stupid as fuck theories floating around
James Mitchell
The photograph of... Peggy Carter?
What is that supposed to prove? Peggy herself had alzheimers.
Brody Fisher
This keeps the timeline from collapsing, not "snapping back."
Cooper Myers
>When they leave the past, it becomes the same past again. They very specifically state that this is not how it works. Hawkeye changed the past by calling to his daughter and bringing the baseball mitt back. There is no rubber band. No Infinity Stones were involved in that first bit of time travel.
Colton Gutierrez
Markus is dumb and doesn’t think things through
Owen Bailey
He didnt change the past because once he left it just became the original past again.
Ian Cook
PEGGY WAS WITHOUT STEVE THAT'S THE POINT PHOTOGRAPHS CAN'T HAVE ALZHEIMERS
Kayden Cruz
Don't forget the 4th timeline. The Baseball glove timeline, where Clint took his son's glove.
Juan Russell
Hawkeye was always meant to the creepy stalker that stalked his house and kids, and then disappear before any of them seen him.
We see that this isn't the case. The scene in the past continues after he leaves. There was no rubber band. His daughter heard him call out for her and went to see what he wanted. This very specifically contradicts your idea.
The baseball mitt his son was using in the opening is the same one he brings back. It is gone from that timeline.
Joseph Hernandez
Nothing because Isn't that picture taken in the first avenger period, pretty sure is the same Steve has in his compass?
Colton Edwards
Yeah its the same picture. I dont get that retards point.
Sebastian Reed
>no baseball glove timeline was one the possibilities Strange saw >he did everything possible to prevent it >he failed
William Hill
>He still would have left another Cap frozen in the ice and stolen his girl. But THAT Cap would have gone on to go back in time and steal ANOTHER Cap's girl as well, in an infinite spiral across the multiverse.
Leo Ortiz
Crisis on infinite cucks
Andrew Jenkins
That going back and becoming her husband would change things like the pictures used in her funeral and death scene. We'd have a picture of Steve as her husband, or anyone at all. We don't. Pictures can't have Alzheimers.
Lincoln Morgan
Why would they have a picture of her husband at her funeral you dumb faggot.
Jace Martin
>Loops back around to the main timeline >Alternate Alternate Alternate Alternate Cap fucks main timeline Peggy Perfectly Balanced
Christian Smith
Actually Cap loved that picture so much that he personally chooses it for the funeral.
Ian Bell
Have you NOT been to funerals before? Family photos are among the pictures they have there.
Colton Hernandez
user theres literally one picture of her at her funeral.
Matthew Roberts
Fuck off CIA nigger
Logan Reyes
>Boston Bombing
He should kill all of your congress and house (in a movie ofc) to get you faggots healthcare. That would save 30.000 a year.
Jaxon Roberts
No they're not. family chooses the best picture of the dead person and the fact that we never saw Peggy's husband adds to the Cap coming back theory
Nathan Murphy
One without Steve. My point.
Joshua Howard
>putting a picture of the spouse next to the coffin at a funeral What kind of fucked up funerals have you been going to? You put memorial pictures of the person next to the coffin, that's it. You don't put pictures of their spouses, kids or dogs up there unless it's to signify they're together in heaven now or some shit. The spouse has to wait for their own funeral if they want in on the limelight.
Jose Scott
...Are you Chinese or something?
William Hall
What kind of funeral did you go to? The only photo at a funeral should be that of the deceased. You don’t decorate it by including the other family members and overshadowing the deceased.
Leo Howard
Motherfucker there is ONE picture at the entire god damn funeral. Does that mean Sharon isnt actually her family either?
Benjamin Ramirez
>Family saying You're next very fucked up ones
Camden Butler
I should make these threads more often, this is fucking hilarious.
Liam Sullivan
This contradicts their own interview to the New York Times. Impressive.
Camden Baker
So riddle me this: where is future Cap at this funeral?
Jacob Walker
>Captain America: Crisis of Infinite Cucks
I wish they just killed him and had him posthumously fedex the shield to Sam.
Ryan Wright
Hiding, with a huge white beard.
Liam Price
Wheres her supposed original husband and kids?
Parker Price
I'd guess they might use these alternate timelines for either future movies or some of the upcoming Marvel Studios series. Isn't there even a "What if?" one? Which is why the directors are going with that view.
Tyler Powell
Pallbearer and front row seat - this happened in civil war
Aiden Sullivan
>herp a derp We go back in time to stop snapping. Thanos comes from past into future and gets killed in future. Now snapping never happens thus we have no reason to go back in time to stop it. In the Future snappening still happened >one timeline
Geeze, I swear you people are dumb.
Jose Barnes
Hiding in the back because he knew he couldn't fucking show himself to his younger self, because he didn't remember finding out about being a destined time-traveller at Peggy's funeral? What, do you think Cap's a fucking retard who'd go through decades of not fucking up how he remembers history, only to fall at the last fucking hurdle?
Jordan Foster
How's he been hiding all this time? Cap is a very recognizable person, a beard isn't going to cut it. Even when he became Joe Biden, Sam could tell who he was.
At the funeral. But no Cap.
Future Cap. FUTURE Cap.
James Reed
Wait sorry, though you meant young Steve by future Steve.
This is so messed up. I just wanted to enjoy a bloody capeshit.
Owen Harris
How did Steve save Peggy's husband from a blizzard where his battallion was stuck if these retards are right.
Kayden Fisher
How does NOBODY know about Cap still being alive when even Sam could tell who he was when he became Joe Biden?
Michael Brown
Poor Daniel Sousa
Xavier Sanchez
>>At the funeral. Where?
I dont see em. No pictures of em. So they dont exist.
Colton Gray
Man, who the fuck cares?
David Robinson
>its physically impossible for someone to lie
Hunter James
Because he stayed out of the way being a housewife and made sure anyone who DID find out wouldn't tell and endanger the time continuum, or wouldn't be believed. It's not like Cap wouldn't have sightings all over the world the same way Hitler, Mengele or Elvis did, they just wouldn't be believed and the real Cap could hide behind all the false ones.
Sebastian Parker
>Steve took on a new name to hide his identity >Steve, now Joe, became Vice President >Steve gives up the shield to Sam so he can become President >Endgame was all just a political ad the whole time >Vote for Captain America
Noah Long
Tomatoes....rotten tomatoes
Josiah Scott
>public figure lying on tape about something easily verifiable
Noah Russell
Literally even Sam could tell who it was so he wasn't very good at hiding his identity For that matter how did nobody notice him at the lake until AFTER he failed to emerge from the Time Machine?
>literally even Cap's best friend since he was unthawed could tell who he was when he was expecting an old cap This is not the amazing feat or recognition that you think it is.
Nicholas Gray
But why. Why would she lie about that. There is literally no purpose. Why would she tell Steve on her fucking death bed that her only regret is he didn't get to live his life. Why would she tape herself talking about her dead husband.
What's more likely, two retards who contradicted their own NYT interview are wrong, or Peggy and Older Steve made up a conspiracy just to troll Younger Steve. Fuck you.
Jonathan Cook
Talking about her fake* husband. Sstupid mistake there.
Kevin Cox
There you have it folks. Steve was never Peggy's husband in the main timeline.
Anthony Foster
>Why would she tell Steve on her fucking death bed that her only regret is he didn't get to live his life. ALZHEIMERS.
SHE HAD FUCKING ALZHEIMERS.
Jaxon Gutierrez
>Peggy and Older Steve made up a conspiracy just to troll Younger Steve I like this one better
Carter Smith
Young Steve can't find out that he's got time-travelling in his future. Of course he can't, because the original Steve didn't know. Steve would obviously make this clear to her when he went back, and the two conspired to make sure Steve didn't know not to troll him, but to make sure they didn't fuck up the timeline catastrophically by having Captain America return too early or tip off Young Steve about how he was going to travel back in time at some point, the same way Strange couldn't say anything about the one timeline to Stark because that would mean it wouldn't happen, since you'd be thinking about it and change the timeline.
Parker Jenkins
Jesus fuck, you're thinking of Dementia. Alzheimers wouldn't make her forget Steve was her husband.
Jaxon Flores
How do you keep this under wraps so well that not even Hydra can find out?
Lucas Perez
Why, because of two photos where her husband is very conspicuously not present, only her two kids?
How could she keep this under wraps if she had Alzheimers?
Carson Evans
Steve: It was I, Steve, the architect of all your pain.
So not only does the loop idea come with the bonus of "Cap did 9/11", it also presents us with "Cap fucked over Cap" in an even more convoluted way. Bravo. Maybe the writers should've stuck to their PREVIOUS FUCKING INTERVIEW TO NYT.
Logan Campbell
>Ah Steve, nice to see you again >Here for another quick shag? Like we did in 77? >Broke a table that time, I couldn't even stand the day afterward
Matthew Bell
Alzheimers does though. One of the major thing involving it is memory loss.
Carter Peterson
Maybe some Hydra goons did found out behind the scenes and Cap killed them. As long as it didn't become mainstream knowledge enough to dramatically change the timeline it's all good.
Sebastian Howard
One writer is wrong. Directors and other writer is correct.
Jason Phillips
Yes, short term and working memory. Dementia makes you forget your husband. Alzheimers makes you forget where the fuck you are and why you have a garden hose up your butt.
Hunter Rogers
>Maybe some Hydra goons did found out behind the scenes and Cap killed them. Cap would have to take down all of Hydra if a couple agents suddenly went missing from him killing them.
Xavier Hall
Time loop means Steve doesn’t screw over Steve. Alternate timeline means Steve screw over Steve. Writers want former while Russos want latter.
Anthony Wood
>Alzheimers wouldn't make her forget Steve was her husband. Yes it would. Have you never watched a single Alzheimer's documentary where parents don't remember their kids, spouses or personal history? That said, I don't think she'd forgotten at that point, if Cap went back. She simply knew that she had to lie and did it as the good little spy she is.
David Bennett
>Cap ends up killing all of Hydra and remaking it to make sure the timeline stays consistent BRAVO R A V O
Luis Sullivan
>She simply knew that she had to lie and did it as the good little spy she is. But how would you guarantee that Alzheimers wouldn't cause her to start blabbing about Steve fucking her doggy style in her kitchen
Jack Green
Captain America is Hydra. Was created by SHIELD, an extension of Hydra.
Ryan Watson
>Cap would have to take down all of Hydra Why? Hydra goons must be dying mysteriously all the time, with the kind of company they keep.
Julian Harris
>Hail Hydra by god
Samuel Clark
Only if it were really advanced, but at that point you become a babbling mess. Otherwise it IS another type dementia.
Matthew Kelly
So you're telling me that Hydra can infiltrate a Shield but can't figure out that Peggy goddamn Carter was fucking Cap for decades?
Justin Davis
Because A.) Timetravel Cap already knew she didn't tell him anything to make him suspect time travel and 2.) she's got fucking alzheimer's, are you really going to listen to her raving about fucking you while you were frozen and figure out that you must have travelled back in time at some point?
James Gray
SHIELD didn't exist until after the war.
William Murphy
They were hypnotized by the man's butt.
Henry Moore
Cap got Pegged
Hudson Nguyen
Maybe they found out and couldn't quite explain what was going on but preferred a housewife Cap that stayed home all the time and didn't cause any trouble for them, and so left them the fuck alone. Maybe they found out and Cap had to give them the time-travel explanation and tell them that if anything changed the whole timeline would unravel and they'd all die. So the self-serving Hydra helped him to delete any record of him that might pop up, afraid of being whisked out of existence.
Cameron Baker
>Ah Steve, so good you're here again >I remember that time we got into BDSM in the 80s, you came so hard when I shoved my strapon into your ass >God you have such a fine ass, I'd slap it right now if I could
Noah Russell
Former screws Steve too. He lets Bucky be tortured, Starks killed, Vietnam war etc happen.
They didn't think this through.
Henry Perez
It's the biggest film of the decade and is based on comic book properties, I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here but you might as well just leave Yea Forums for a few months if it bothers you so goddamn much because it won't stop.
Aiden Sullivan
I refuse to believe someone could actually be this stupid.
Jack Garcia
a little knowledge is a dangerous thing you know enough to bring up Sousa, but don't know that there's no way Peggy ever married him because he got discharged before Cap's mission that saved Peggy's husband
Brody Jackson
Goddamnit.
Ethan Price
Someone post this on TV
Hunter Roberts
>OK, be honest: Do you guys understand everything about how time travel works as explained in the movie or are there still loopholes even for you? >AR: In the movie, the Hulk is very explicit about what our rules are, which is you cannot change the present by altering the past. All you can do by going to the past — and for a character like Cap[tain America], living in the past — is create an alternate future. So this is a world in which alternate timelines exist.
>Was it difficult presenting a theory of time travel that hadn’t previously been explored onscreen? >AR: “Back to the Future” is one of our favorite films, and the rules of that movie are ubiquitous; they have informed pop culture for 40 years. And we wanted to do something different. We didn't realize how complicated it would be to create new rules and have people go with us, but we learned very early on in the test screenings that people are really committed to those “Back to the Future” rules — if you shoot yourself, you should die. We spoke with a few physicists, and there’s a lot of theories about how time travel could work. We chose the multiverse theory.
If they explicitly chose multiverse time travel instead of Back to the Future rules, then Captain America had to have been in an alternate reality and came back to give the shield to Sam. Christopher Markus, one of the screenwriters who say otherwise, is WRONG.
Carson Ward
Problem is there is NOTHING in the movie to ever lead the viewer to believe old man Steve warped back from some other timeline at that moment in time at all. It looks an awful lot like he just lived his life in that timeline until that day when he knew he needed to be there by the lake.
If they want everyone to know he warped back from an alternate universe so badly, then put it in the movie somewhere. Either a line of dialog, or some purple lights when he appears on the bench, something.
>Either a line of dialog, or some purple lights when he appears on the bench, something. Have him return on the platform, but he's old. Hulk freaks out thinking they fucked up the procedure, same as when Ant-Man came back old. Cap stops him and says everything went just as planned, with a smile.
Jonathan Morgan
Thank fuck.
Colton Miller
>Steve goes to alternate Earth, thaws his alternate self out of the ice and then they spend the next 70 odd years DPing alternate Peggy while taking care of Hydra and every other disaster Cap knows about together, and then he goes back home when Peggy's dead >"That IS the ass of America!"
it's really all they had to do I think they wanted both options to be possible to let fans be happy, but Bucky shippers weren't having it so they meme'd all the JFK, 9/11 shit
Carter Thomas
It's a problem of poor craftsmanship. Time travel doesn't make sense no matter how you cut it. The problem is when you draw attention to the holes in the logic. It's not a problem of plot holes, but actively encouraging your audience to look at the hole. Like a magic trick, you want to misdirect.
No one asks these kinds of questions about Back to the Future.
Anthony Jenkins
>Bucky shippers Not just them.
Ethan Harris
>implying the word of the author matters outside the text
Evan Moore
Because Back to the Future always have a common theme with its time travel. Time travel is only possible with the car and thus you have a clear idea of how it works. The Russos claimed Steve came back to the main timeline from an alternate timeline but he didn't return on the time platform nor was he wearing the time travel suit. Which makes things extremely confusing. Also contradicts what the Russos said since based on the established scenes, they will always return on the time platform when they are returning to the main timeline.
Dominic Jackson
>Writers contradict directors. because the directors said that in an interview for the chinese market, and china is against time travel in movies. So yeah, the idea of the writers was to have cap in a timeloop, but they can't say it because China would ban the movie
William Scott
No that's for domestic productions. Foreign films don't follow these guidelines.
Angel Phillips
no, that's for any film. If foreign films don't follow those guidelines they get banned. Back to the Future for instance is banned in China. Do you think it's a coincidence that they mocked it so much in EG? The Chinese government doesn't want peopel to think that it's possible to change the past or that there could be multiple pasts.
Aaron Sanders
To be fair, no government should want anyone to time travel into the past. Especially with the fact that we only got theories on how time travel actually works and no concrete proof of how it actually works.
Oliver Harris
t. bucky shipper
Adam Foster
>and china is against time travel in movies. Are they afraid someone's going to find out about the concept, invent a time machine and go back to kill Mao or what?
Lincoln Cruz
I guess they're afraid that people start thinking about what is the real past in the movie and then get on to thinking that the past you remember may not be the past that really happened and they don't want that. The justification I've read is that time traveling plots are used as a form of escapism from the current dictatorship, where the MC goes from modern China to a more traditional and different china, but it doesn't explain why they'd ban movies like BttF
Nolan Collins
When Steve chose to live out his life, he created two separate time lines. Time moves at a constant for all points in the stream. Therefore there is a timeline where Steve just simply disappears and another where he lives until the point that he left. Since the move we saw is the one that has him appearing as an old man, the Avengers also would have defeated Thanos twice. This retroactively undermines Doctor Strange's 1 in 14 million outcomes.
Jeremiah Hernandez
How are the Nova Force alive when they specifically mentioned that anyone that died unrelated to snap aren't being resurrected?
Bentley Martin
Goddamnit. I'm gonna assume Nat, Gamora and Tony are alive in that one.
Kayden Morales
He had all the time he needed. For all we know he spent a few years saving a ton more people and helping as much as he could before settling down. The whole point of Cap and Tony's ending are that Tony makes the big sacrifice and Steve decides to heed Tony's advice and settle down and live his life for himself.
Jose Martin
>conveluded Nigga are you retarded? DBZ used the simplest form of time travel. Other than the generic "Go back and change things to make shit never have happened" form.
Ryder Diaz
No it doesnt
Carson Turner
This is the easiest way out.
Jaxson Long
If they did that and kept the ring scene and had old man Cap from the future of MCU prime, the Stuckies won't have been so mad. They coulda pretended Binky and Steve got married.
What exactly is Bucky going to do in the past? Steve most likely avoided everyone that he knows besides Peggy.
Gabriel Morris
If that's true then they could have just gone and killed baby Thanos But they clearly ruled that out because changing the past changes the present Why is this so fucking hard to understand?
Kevin Nguyen
yeah, nothing in the movie suggests that he went to an alternate time line and found more pym particles to get back there. seeing an old steve on the bench suggests he took 'the long way' back
Ryan Harris
It violates everything that was established about time travel up to that point
Jose White
branch realities get created if you go back and CHANGE THE PAST. if you go back and leave the past as is, it stays within the same timeline. future steve always entered the 1940s and had a life with peggy in the prime time line. we as the MCU audience just didn't know about it. therefore no branching timeline. closed loop. however, all the other incidents in the movie where they stole the stones and fucked shit up created branch timelines. the writers aren't contradicting each other. those responses you quoted are responding to different questions in different contexts.
Cooper Wilson
Going back to the past changes the past regardless You can't not change the past by going back
Jack Kelly
Just saw endgame a second time trying to cheer myself up, when after I walked out of the theater some faggot in a car insulted my hair and shouted back he that was a nigger. What a great start to the weekend am I right guys? I want to die.
Grayson Gomez
They denied us Cap & Bucky: Excellent Adventure. Fuck the Russos!
Zachary Phillips
imagine you enter a room and find one cookie, take it and eat it.
now imagine that empty room in the past has two cookies in it. i travel back to that point in time, enter that room and take a cookie and leave before you've entered the room. you enter the room, see one cookie, take it and eat it.
see how because no other variables have changed within anybody else's frame of reference in that time line, that my taking the cookie was for all intents and purposes ALWAYS the case? no time line split because what i did did not affect anything going forward.
Isaiah Mitchell
reality branches when things are meddled with and stones are taken but if things don't change, reality stays consistent. see
Ethan Sanchez
You did change something though You changed the number of cookies in the room It doesn't matter if it occurs in someone else's frame of reference or not
Mason Garcia
So is there an alternate reality where Loki has the Tesseract because he escaped with it (it wasn't taken out of that universe)?
Jeremiah Richardson
we never saw that peggy never interacted with steve in the past. you're assuming omniscience and knowing everything that's happened in the past MCU when really you only have a limited scope of things as the audience. peggy could have ALWAYS interacted with steve and just kept that a secret
Connor Young
That's complete bullshit and you know it
Zachary Edwards
you guys are idiots. no one's saying it's a single time line (unless some people are, in which case they're idiots). it's multiple time lines when things are changed and stones are removed. if things stay the same (as they always were) it creates a causal loop (what the writers were saying with steve's case). it's not one or the other, it's both depending on circumstances.
Levi Bailey
>Peggy and Steve >Both being able to live in secrecy and let Hydra infiltrate Shield, keep Bucky and let Steve lie in the ice
The Russos really don't understand Steve.
Jonathan Sanders
And that's complete and utter bullshit
Gabriel Nguyen
thank you
Nathan Nelson
cap never changed the past, user. it was always how it was. we as the MCU audience just didn't get to see peggy marry cap cuz they were keeping it secret.
Nolan Gonzalez
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation >The many-worlds interpretation could be one possible way to resolve the paradoxesthat one would expect to ariseiftime travelturns out to be permitted by physics (permittingclosed timelike curvesand thus violatingcausality). Entering the past would itself be a quantum event causing branching, and therefore the timeline accessed by the time traveller simply would be another timeline of many. In that sense, it would make theNovikov self-consistency principle unnecessary. Basically saying there's no need for a casual loop because the very act of going to the past changes it So fuck off everyone who thinks Cap went back in time in the prime universe
Eli Edwards
his frozen self remains frozen until he unthaws, joins the avengers, defeats thanos, then travels back in time to get with peggy while that past steve remains frozen until he unthaws, joins the avengers etc. etc. etc. it's causal loop. future steve was always in the past living with peggy.
Adam Richardson
Exactly right. People are idiots saying it's EITHER branched timelines or time loop. It's both depending on circumstances.
Isaac Watson
If Cap did go back in the prime timeline then BTTF wouldn't have been bullshit
Lucas Evans
No Cap wasn't predestined to travel back in time Otherwise there would have only been one future Doctor Strange could have seen The one where they win and Cap goes back to deliver the time stones That means in over 14 million timelines the time stream would have been broken because Cap would have never have been able to go back to marry Peggy Ergo go kys you useless fuck
Levi Thompson
if Steve told past Steve about this, he wouldn't go through all the avengers shit, beat Thanos and go back in time to give himself a good life.
Caleb Roberts
Exactly. Without any director or writer interview, the film itself, on its own merits, leads one to believe Steve naturally aged in the same time line. With every other theory you have to ASSUME.
Brandon Phillips
If they killed baby Thanos, they would have verifiably changed the past which would have created a split time line (There would be no Thanos to amass power and gather the stones, etc). What the writers are saying is that going to the past and not changing anything that affects things going forward does not branch the time line. In other words, Steve ALWAYS married Peggy in secret. We never see Peggy's supposed husband. They're implying future Steve was always said husband. Nothing has changed.
Chase Campbell
But BY THE VERY ACT OF GOING BACK IN TIME you change the past Why is this so fucking hard to understand?
William Kelly
you can still see 14 million different ways where that doesn't work lol.
Levi Murphy
Don't take your anger out on another user for the shitty writing, direction and Feige.
Grayson Gray
>Without any director or writer interview, the film itself, on its own merits, leads one to believe Steve naturally aged in the same time line. Except it violates the rules that were explicitly explained in the movie
Luke Lewis
Well if they only win and fix things in one time line, why does the other 14 million time lines being broken matter?
Justin Hughes
The past can't be changed if that particular past was always meant to happen. Basically a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Joshua Perry
>the Ancient One specifically states that when you take an Infinity Stone out of a timeline it creates a new timeline. So Steve going back and just being there would not create a new timeline. That's not how logic works. That's like saying putting a bullet in the head of someone kills them, so stomping their head repeatedly doesn't kill them.
Cameron Gonzalez
Who's to say he didn't change his appearance? He looks plenty different with a moustache/beard. Not to mention by the time Young Cap gets unfrozen, Old Cap would already be 70+ years older than him and look fairly different.
Jack Clark
Because it means Cap wasn't always destined to go back in time to marry Peggy
Self-fulfilling prophecies are bullshit Everything would need to have a cause and they spend part of the movie ripping time travel movies for ignoring this principle
Isaac Carter
I think Strange could be looking at 14 million futures on stopping Thanos in 2018, turns out they fail in all of them except for the one in 2023 due to a causal timeloop clause. Even then they fail in 2023 if Tony Stark DOESNT sacrifice himself and by then 2014 Thanos has rewritten the universe so time loops done even matter at that point.
Zachary Cox
There wouldn't have been 14 million There would have only been the one because it had been predetermined
Nathan Gomez
>the film itself, on its own merits, leads one to believe Steve naturally aged in the same time line.
It does not, because the film explicitly states that time travel doesn't work that way. There are no loops.
Brandon Lee
NO
Going back ALWAYS branches the timeline. Watch the fucking movie again, and this time pay attention and try not to be retarded.
Bentley Murphy
There are no time loops in the fucking movie.
Ryan Price
We could all be talking about Pegging America's Ass but nope we'll argue quantum physics and terrible writing forever. Damn the Russos.
What about the fact that Loki got away with the space stone? Is that a new timeline or not?
Isaiah Johnson
writers disagree faggot yeah, find out more in the HIT NEW SERIES LOKI No, 14 million possibilities in 2018, they all fail no matter what variation they try because of the time loop in 2023. However 2023 probably has variations as well because 2014 thanos wins he will reset the universe. So Strange had to REALLY make sure things went the way they did.
Sebastian Jackson
where exactly in the movie do they say going back always branches the timeline? sincerely curious
Lucas Myers
>Because it means Cap wasn't always destined to go back in time to marry Peggy Yeah, no one's arguing that he was in all possible time lines. The argument is that in THIS time line (the non broken one) he was.
Daniel Davis
there's nothing stopping you about talking about alzheimers peggy blabbing about that time she and steve did some serious butt stuff in the 80s to spice things up
Jackson Reyes
That changes the past. You can't change the past. You very specifically can't change the past.
Gavin Bennett
Because he's considered an international criminal? Because he is recovering from decades of trauma? Because Sam is a man of this era, and a damn good one at that? Why shouldn't sam get the shield?
Luke Taylor
They were saying BTTF was bullshit in the sense that if you change the past those changes reverberate into the future. Like if you go back in time and kill someone, they disappear in the future. If Cap went back to the past and killed his past self, it would have created a branch time line. But if he went back and didn't change anything, time lines would not diverge because he was always there and him being there did not change the future.
Jordan Young
There couldn't have been another possible because everything would have been predetermined According to the many-worlds interpretation of the multiverse, Schrodinger's cat is alive in one universe and dead in another. Both universes exist but which one you are in depends on whether the cat lived or died However if the cat you go for the experiment traveled back in time from when you opened the box to see if the cat was alive, then the cat would have always been alive therefore the universe where the cat died in the experiment never existed So in other words having a self-fulfilling prophecy rules out the possiblity of multiple outcomes
Gavin Harris
Why the fuck do you think going back in time means he didn't change anything? How the fuck does you mind think that?
Brandon Sullivan
the past was never changed though. the universe was born millions of years pass in about '48 future cap appears and talks to peggy. everything else transpires. frozen cap unthaws. MCU events transpire. after thanos, the unthawed cap goes back to the branched time lines and returns the gems and hammer. his last stop is his prime time line in '48, talking to peggy as it always happened in that time line. get it?
John Torres
They always were. TWS was a one time thing. I'll never forgive them for taking away Cap 3 and making it Avengers 2.5 and then breaking them up. Billions of dollars for the Mouse at the expense of characters and their growth. If you need to rely on suppressing spoilers and shock value, it's not a good movie.
And we already know Tony and Natasha are self-sacrificing. Why make them go down the same character arcs over and over?
Sorry I ever dissed your Avengers, Whedon.
Cameron Hernandez
When they rule out killing baby Thanos because in doing so they just create a different reality Some anons think Cap going back didn't change the past so it didn't create a new timeline but these guys shouldn't be allowed to vote or use big boy scissors
Jaxson Wood
>But if he went back and didn't change anything, time lines would not diverge because he was always there and him being there did not change the future. The very act of going back to the past changes events, because now new matter has entered into the universe. New breaths are being taken. New farts are being made. New bacteria are dying and thriving. There is no difference between a minor and major change in the grand scheme of things. All changes are equal.
Andrew Gray
Peggy's husband isn't Steve in the main timeline though.
Samuel Hill
makes no difference. the cookie always disappeared in that time line.
Ayden Campbell
To you But in the universe of course it does
Ethan Allen
This is after the part where she says they are from different realities.
You remember that part, right?
Jonathan Butler
The "alternate" timeline they discuss is one where Doctor Strange faces Kaecilius and Dormammu without the Time Stone
Isaiah Turner
I get that, and I'd be fine with Cap retiring and having a happy ending. He deserves it after all he's been through. I can appreciate that they're reversing what one would initially expect as an ending for Cap and Iron Man.
But it would be so much less complicated and stupid if he just found some chick to settle down with in the present timeline and lived out the rest of his life knowing Sam and Bucky are off doing capeshit and keeping everyone safe, as opposed to him going back to the past to be with a woman he never even went on a proper date with.
I just can't see 'always gets back up in a fight' Cap being happy living in a time period where he knows that his wife is going to work everyday unknowingly helping a terrorist organization and his friend is a brainwashed assassin and being unable to do anything to change those things.
Easton Harris
Pretty sure killing all of congress and house would save more than 30.000 a year.
Tyler Taylor
The Russos have said that, even when it's a different timeline, there are two Caps and one is frozen.
So StevePrime got with PeggyB, left SteveB on ice, BuckyB with Hydra and let Hydra take over Shield there.
This is worse than Nick Spencer. I know they're trying to push it as some "tony told me to go live my life" thing but he told him to do it when time travel wasn't a possibility, at the end of Age of Ultron "you'll get there some say". So Tony meant him to live in the PRESENT.
I don't care about who he dicks or doesn't. I just didn't expect Cap to get turned into a depression fantasy.
When Peggy said, the world's moved on, none of us can go back and the best we can do is start over, she told Steve to do that in the present.
This is a rather depressing end for him. Both with timeloop or alternate timeline.
Adam Harris
>Peggy keeps an old photo of Steve on her desk >Peggy is secretly married to Steve >Peggy keeps Steve locked in the basement and no one ever sees him, but also they have children together, don't worry about it >??? It's alternate timelines, man. All the problems you're introducing are so much bigger than the explanation the movie gave you.
Andrew Hall
Yeah, exactly all of that. It's a pretty shit ending for a really good character.
People are getting all pissy because they wanted him to dick someone who isn't Peggy, but it really doesn't matter to me who he ended up with (the thing with Sharon is still weird but I would have been happier with that then what actually happened), I just want him to get an ending that isn't depressing as hell.
Henry James
You know, that's another thing I haven't thought about. If Cap has kids, wouldn't the kids inherit the superhuman enhancements that Cap got from the serum? Would those kids want to live a normal life or do capeshit? If the government or whatever evil organization found out that Peggy has been having superbabies would they try to steal the kids and use them as weapons?
I have to agree with the alternate timelines shit, because nothing else seems plausible. You can't have Cap living in the past without it having a HUGE impact on the present, unless Peggy literally keeps him chained to her bed for 50+ years and never skips a birth control pill and only lets him out to go meet Sam and Bucky in the park.
Joshua Hernandez
yeah either ending is shit. If its a time loop, cap stays out of the sidelines and sees all the bad shit happen. If its an alt reality then cap cucks that worlds cap.
Gabriel Hall
At least he was really happy in his depression dream user. As a person who wants him happy, this was not ideal but it was one way to get there. (But I have no charitable feelings for the Russos and the writers, what a waste of one of the best Steves.)
I wanted all of them to live.
Jason Lee
If it's an alt reality then it's not like that reality's original cap had any real chance of being with Peggy anyways. By the time they thaw him out she already has dementia. He's Captain America, he's probably drowning in pussy. He's not cucked.
Leo Martin
Maybe he lurks around his younger self and nudges him.
Would he really be happy with that for long? Maybe it would be cool for a month or two but after that he'd probably feel pretty horrified and trapped.
It would have been better if most of the main players had stayed alive. Especially Widow, since with the new movie being in production you know they're just going to find some bullshit way to retcon the death, so I don't know what the point was.
Nolan Fisher
Well, this time, friends from his barbershop quartet actually are dead (Tony, Nat).
I can't imagine him playing house husband for long. And I wish he came back the same age. Or at least he travelled different parts of the universe helping them out, if Pym particles allowed.
70 years. I wonder how the time GPS had juice.
Elijah Campbell
Yeah, establishing his character as the guy who keeps getting back up to take another punch to the face even when he's outmatched makes it hard to imagine him ever retiring for long. I get that they wanna let Sam be Cap now and I'm cool with that, but it's hard to bench Steve since 'never give up' is his outlook. Killing him would be effective but very sad. The time travel shit is unsatisfying bullshit on several different levels.
I saw someone mention that they could have had him go back to the way he was from before he got the serum, by getting hit from some magic thing in a fight or a noble sacrifice thing, and I think that would be a good reason for him stay out the fight permanently and settle down.
John Parker
yeah but why the fuck not thaw him out instead? Like imagine being that world's cap. Waking up from ice and finding out another version of you was able to have one last dance.
Jace Campbell
He'd have to find a way to cuck another Steve.
Adrian Allen
This is what the next two Cap movies should be about.
Easton Rivera
Agreed. I wish they made him de-serumed too. So Steve can explore this century as a normal civilian.
Sebastian Cox
Banner invented immortality through Pym Particle Time Travel, they can reverse Steve's old age that way.
Hudson Wilson
Yeah but he'd already have a life in the alternate timeline now. They can't yank him back.
Adam Garcia
thats not the shit theory the movie follows, im right.