...Anavar, Primobolin, Orgabolin, Maxibolin, Winstrol...in short "steroids."
It's an interesting question to ponder - and not just Batman, but all superheroes with no special powers: Punisher, Arrow, Hawkeye, Black Widow, etc. What's their stance on PEDs?
In a world where normal guys in their 50s are doing shots of test just just because, to say nothing of athletes, wouldn't it make sense for "normal" superheroes to run a cycle to keep themselves in literally super-human shape?
It's a question not likely to be seriously explored in comics. Obviously you have "evil" steroid-like supps with things like Bane's Venom that have really bad side effects, but would superheroes that are meant to represent the peak of human potential, is it violative of their core principal for them to use PEDs. And if so, is there a limit? Is something like Venom generally off limits for these heroes simply because of their side effects, or because they represent a tampering with biology that's inconsistent with their character?
"Batman experiments on himself" is a woefully underused plot point because DC is afraid of endorsing "better living through chemistry." If you're going to take the idea of Batman being 'peak human' serious then of course it makes sense for him to use all kinds of cutting edge medical technologies and drugs to support himself but you just know clickbaiters are going to have a field day. And that's before you'd get Bendis or some other idiot who decides to write 'Batman:Venom' but goes full retard with Frankenstein Batman making gay furry love to Manbat.
Isaiah Myers
I actually haven't read Batman: Venom yet, but you're absolutely right. Heroes like Superman, Thor, the Hulk, and even Cap are different because they represent more of a *moral* ideal instead of a practical one. We're not from Asgard or Krypton, and we don't have the power innate to the people who are, so people don't compare themselves to them.
But it's different for Batman, and the characters like Sherlock Holmes, Zorro, or even Teddy Roosevelt, that he's based on. They represent a level of human potential that we *could* achieve under certain circumstances.
But what are those circumstances? Are performance enhancing drugs to be considered in the "normal" sphere of human potential? Especially if they carry lower or more benign side effects?
I don't wanna sound like a /pol/-tard but there's a reason DC is afraid of endorsing the idea of "better living." It's because of the impact it'll have on the legions of young fans who imagine deep down they can become super through hard work and eating their vegetables and whatever. It's the same illusion that's put out with every bodybuilder and top athlete since forever. People, esp young people, love seeing themselves in their idols, and that illusion is only maintained if PEDs are kept on the downlow. By normalizing them among super heroes, you normalize them in life too.
Yeah I know. See infra: But, for the purposes of the DC universe, are all steroids like venom? Or can we allow the presence of benign ones?
Christian Morris
>But, for the purposes of the DC universe, are all steroids like venom? Or can we allow the presence of benign ones? It's pretty clear you didn't understand at all.
Hunter Watson
I feel like, even if there were benign performance enhancing drugs in the DCU, Batman wouldn't use them, because ultimately, that's just one more potential way a villain can get the better of him.
Also, Batman's power all comes from Batman. That's kind of the point. If he had to ascribe at least a little of his strength from GNC instead of good, old-fashioned reps, that runs against his code.
Noah Martinez
Mostly Reagan era politics.
It honestly makes sense for Bats to use at least some painkillers/stimulants to stay awake etc.
IIRC Allstar Batman & Robin's Bats was pretty much coked out of his mind for half the books, but that'd mostly be Frank Miller doing Frank Miller things.
Isaiah Bailey
This is my one of my favorite Alex Ross pieces.
Jackson Sanders
He does, yes. along with quasi-bullshit pseudo-science like 4 naps a day at 5 minutes each to easily survive
On the other hand, he's been shown sleeping like 24 hours or more after a long day
The answer you are looking for is: technically yes, but it depends on what idiot is writing him
Christopher Watson
>goes full retard with Frankenstein Batman making gay furry love to Manbat. This is weirdly specific. Do you have something you'd like to tell us, user?
Henry James
Would Batman use steroids and painkillers, realistically?
Yes
Does he use them?
No.
Why?
Because, as a nearly 100 year old comic book character who has starred in a variety of depictions across multiple mediums with different demographics, nothing, ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT BATMAN, is CONSISTENT or REALISTIC
Better question: why doesnt arkham pump his rogues with haldol until they die?
Bentley Wright
>It's a question not likely to be seriously explored in comics. Obviously you have "evil" steroid-like supps with things like Bane's Venom that have really bad side effects, but would superheroes that are meant to represent the peak of human potential, is it violative of their core principal for them to use PEDs. And if so, is there a limit? Is something like Venom generally off limits for these heroes simply because of their side effects, or because they represent a tampering with biology that's inconsistent with their character?
What's Hourman up to these days? Does he even fucking exist? His whole gimmick's that he pops a pill and gets super for like an hour.
Luke Stewart
No, drugs are for losers.
Jaxon Nguyen
Steroids don’t actually make you stronger, just more muscular.
Kayden Martin
So explain it
Colton Diaz
That's a good point. If he loses his drugs, it's like a kryptonite.
They make you stronger if you train for strength. PEDs have been used by strongmen, powerlifters and athletes of all types.
Benjamin Jenkins
Yeah. That's basically what I said here:
Nathan Martin
I really don't understand how you equate using drugs with "better living". It has nothing to do with DC, there's a stigma about drugs because they're perceived as bad for you and unnatural. It's not like everyone secretly thinks drugs are good and are just pretending they're bad, most people literally believe they are bad for you.
That's why no one wants to write Batman using drugs, because it would be completely backwards to peoples' understanding. People wouldn't go "oh Batman's using drugs, does that mean I can't be like Batman if I don't use drugs?", they'd go "why the fuck is Batman using drugs, aren't they going to cause damage to his body and make him less effective in the long run?"
Julian Morales
He absolutely does, no doubt about it.
Connor Garcia
They're one and the same in many ways I think.
Brody Ross
Probably but I want to believe Bruce is Natty
Liam Allen
A lot of the stigma around steroids comes from the perception of them giving an unfair advantage in a situation where legitimate competition is taking place.
The WWF only got in trouble for 'roids because back then it was still a work, brother. Once they exposed the business nobody gave a shit that the Ultimate Warrior was juicier than a Juicy Fruit factory.
Wyatt Myers
No. He can spend all day every day training and exercising. He has a butler preparing his meals. He doesn't have the normal stresses of life to deal with: 9-5 job, home mortgage, car loan, picking up the kids from school, getting little billys braces paid for, his boss breathing down his neck, etc
Colton Bailey
This question gets down to the fundamental flaw of Batman. DC Comics.
Batman as character, and all the characters of Gotham, exist as an incredibly dramatic premise ripe for storytelling. Every aspect of Batman's life is engaging because of the hundreds of little things which make him profound as a character. From his rogues gallery, to his sidekicks and allies, to even normal civilians in Gotham, a decent writer would have to struggle not to tell a somewhat interesting story with the Batman Universe.
But DC Comics ruins it with adding superhumans into the mix. Superman, Wonder Woman, etc, undermine Batman in every way. As soon as you introduce Superman, writers are forced to come up with thousands of bullshit reasons as to why Batman should be a part of the Justice League.
The best Batman stories rest on the idea that Batman is a man (albeit genetically outstanding and super rich), who could be killed by a thug with a gun on a bad night. That's what makes being Batman exciting.
Does he take performance enhancing drugs? If its not in a world where Superman and all that bullshit exists, then I'd argue yes he does, but only late in his career mixed with painkillers from all the injuries he's sustained.
Oliver Nelson
>But DC Comics ruins it with adding superhumans into the mix. Superman, Wonder Woman, etc, undermine Batman in every way. As soon as you introduce Superman, writers are forced to come up with thousands of bullshit reasons as to why Batman should be a part of the Justice League.
Where does this image o Batman come from? Seriously, how does one view a fundamentally pulp hero who is a founding Justice League hero who was in the first cross over comic ever(Worlds Finest) as 'realistic'. I just don't fucking get this mentality. Batman's first Super-Villain is a werewolf vampire hybrid, when was Batman ever 'realistic'?
Austin Ross
Say what you want but the best Batman is one that reaches the peak of human potential, but doesn't break it either. I like Superman and supernatural stuff, but I don't enjoy it when they cross over either. But if you enjoy it that's fine too.
Michael Rogers
>Frankenstein Batman making gay furry love to Manbat
D-did... did that happen in Batman: Venom?
Luke Carter
What are you on about? I am talking about the character as he has existed from the beginning. It's not a matter of what you or I like it's just how the character is. If you want "realism" you should go read another character Batman isn't and wasn't realist.
Leo Russell
Okay bud.
James Adams
The very nature of Batman breaks "peak of human potential." Even excusing the things that exist because of genre convention, a human approaching Batman's activity level would be suffering from sleep deprivation, chronic fatigue, and joint problems at the very least.
Nolan Flores
Batman exists in a comic book reality which I think of as similar to a kung-fu movie. There's unrealistic expectations and feats involved, but still considered peak human. But its pointless arguing about it because this just revolves to personal taste.
Evan Stewart
every day and twice on Sunday he also huffs glue
Ian Brooks
Venom is one of the best Batman stories and one of the few good things about knightfall, the others being the introduction of bane and sword of azrael
Wyatt Wilson
>I actually haven't read Batman: Venom Then why do you make a long post instead of reading the fucking issues? who cares about your opinion? I hate casuals so much, Peak humans ARE NOT bonded by real life, they never were. Doc Savage is Superhuman, there's nothing realistic about batman bench pressing one 1. And then he was fighting the Monster-men, and soon he traveling in time. It's a dumb meme by people that actually doesn't read batman and doesn't like the character beyond cartoons Venom was years before knightfall tho
David Rodriguez
>I'm a casual who doesn't read comics No. he doesn't. He used venom and became addicted at one time.
Read comics instead of just discussing the characters.
Jeremiah Johnson
When the competition is who can maintain a cranked up body? Sure.
Eli Jackson
Who told you to post here?
Why do casuals post here?
Cameron Gray
No he doesnt. You're another casual speaking in generalities and about how you feel batman should be portrayed.
>inb4 the naps are Morrison And you didn't read Morrison.
Batman doesn't take steroids. You can't post a single instance of him doing so.
>inb4 venom If you say this you're retarded.
Gavin Wilson
>Venom was years before knightfall tho indeed but it's considered a prelude
Daniel Turner
Another casual sharing how he feels batman should be portrayed.
Why do so many people who know nothing about batman have a were view if their own batman? Why do you people share this shit like it's fact?
>100s of versions Only like 6 are canon and they're mostly alike. You newfags need to grow up with this "muh batman is as valid as any".
You don't know a fucking thing about the character other than you like him.
Camden Martin
>Batman ... could be killed by a thug with a gun on a bad night. Right there? Not him, but he is right. It's hard (or even impossible) for a 'normal' human to be written right, or as anything but maybe the tactics guy who serves as their Oracle (which could *still* be done better by a metahuman with super speed and/or enhanced intellect). Then again a setting of supers where the Speedforce (or even speedsters past a certain point) is another bag or worms. Pietro could clean up the Marvel setting in days to weeks by our perception, because he exists almost outside our perception of time, able to eat an entire meal 'slowly' before somones fork has even been lifted once. Image related. Look at Wanda and the guy next to her in the final four panels. They literally copied their art rather than even drawing tiny changes. There is no one who could stop him if he decided to fuck shit up. He could make every woman in a room think she was the next Mary. The take away is not to think about it too hard.
The stigma comes from the fact that they're legitimately terrible for the body.
Cal mogler was Hercules incarnate and couldn't keep from tearing his muscles to pieces on a simple climbing slip. Steroids are not good for you, they help you reach peaks you shouldn't reach. They're effective as fuck but terrible for the body.
Noah Gray
Anons an insufferable casual with a "muh batman" complex but that wasn't the first crossover. Spy Smasher and Cap crossed over in the 40s. I think some rrandom Nedor characters were the first.
Adrian Adams
user Batman and other 'normal' human in the context of Superhero stories are so fucking smart it's not even funny people like Tony and Lex make most Super heroes redundant
Sebastian Wright
Discuss comics.
Jackson Diaz
>a human approaching Batman's activity level would be suffering from sleep deprivation, chronic fatigue, and joint problems at the very least Once upon a time in the long forgotten age before Batman was characterized as an emotionally retarded anti-social idiot savant with a suicide fetish Bruce Wayne actually did most of the living. Going out to parties, running WayneEnterprises, banging hot chicks three at a time in a hot tub ect. and Batman was the secret weapon he would break out two or three times a week when there was a particularly gruesome homicide or he had discovered a soft point in the corruption ruining Gotham. So much of the Batman mythology breaks down when you go full retard (which is what TDKR was trying to illustrate and Frank ended up encouraging the Batgod instead of poking holes in it.)
Bentley Young
I think World's Finest wasn't even the first DC crossover, All Star Comics predates it by about a year. Also, there was the Namor x Human Torch fight which is also from 1940, predating the Spy Smasher x Captain America by a few months
Josiah Long
>Frank ended up encouraging the Batgod You are a moron that doesn't know what batgod means.
Gabriel Stewart
>They're effective as fuck but terrible for the body The science has come a long way since then and if we're cherry picking the most favorable outcomes then concierge doctors have proven chemical cocktails (including steroids) combined with a healthy diet and supervised, professionally scripted exercise routines can be a part of a healthy, sustainable lifestyle.
Ryan King
>he would break out two or three times a week when there was a particularly gruesome homicide or he had discovered a soft point in the corruption ruining Gotham. If even that often. And then, he spent a lot of that time researching and doing detective work, skulking around. He was pretty much a pulp detective in a bat outfit who could fight gud. He didn't do anything that would really ruin his body.
Then again, image related, that Batman 'died' so long ago he's barely worth mentioning. He's been had that semi-deathwish since early post-crisis at least and well, well before my time.
Even with "emotionally retarded anti-social idiot savant with a suicide fetish" characterization, one can easily have the vast majority of Bruce's crimefighting activities be surveillance, forensics, and intelligence gathering that are basically just sitting around.
Grayson Evans
>He was pretty much a pulp detective in a bat outfit He was making his palm vibrate so it would block swords at that very same time and used chi to close his wounds.
Eat a dick faggot. You think we would have had JLA Batman one-shotting three white Martians with a gas can if we didn't first have TDKR Batman punting Superman? O'Neill tried to hold back the tide with his 'friendly neighborhood vigilante' Batman but a whole generation grew up with TDKR as their headcanon and the escalation through Dixon's 'slightly autistic but still vulnerable' Batman then past Morrison's "I shoot God's not men" Batman and into Snyder's "Batman is literally at the center of all creation" is the result. Get fucked.
Kevin Russell
>"Batman is literally at the center of all creation" is the result I mean, we've got Barbatos as basically Batman's own personal deity, I wonder how far it will go as more decades pass?
Alexander Cook
>IIRC Allstar Batman & Robin's Bats was pretty much coked out of his mind for half the books, but that'd mostly be Frank Miller doing Frank Miller things.
I'll said it once and I'll say it again. All Star Batman and Robin was a stealth parody.
Angel Campbell
>You think we would have had JLA Batman one-shotting three white Martians with a gas can if we didn't first have TDKR Batman punting Superman? Yes. since he used a can of oil and matches. >Batman but a whole generation grew up with TDKR as their headcanon No, a whole generation grew up Batman TaS, with Adam West, With Nolan, with Burton, not with TDKR. TDKR is just Prep-time batman, literally the same batman that had anti-shark repelent, it didn't influenced batgod at all, and Snyder doesn't write batgod at all. Tomassi, Waid, Morrison, Neil Gaiman, Daniel and meaby 2 more writers used Batgod, but that's it. You are a power level fag that doesn't know the difference between prep-time batman and Batgod.
Matthew White
>All Star Batman and Robin was a stealth parody. Satire, not parody, just like 300 (both the comic and the movie) and TDKR. You can do satire and still believe in the things you are doing.
Blake Collins
>wonder how far it will go as more decades pass I have a secret hope that King's CRAAAAAWLING IN MY SKIIIIIIIIN bullshit will pull Batman back towards his original character but without a major shakeup of the industry as a whole I don't think there's anybody willing to move away from whatever the fuck you want to call the Batmessiah now.
Aaron Murphy
>Snyder doesn't write batgod at all What the fuck did I just read?
Christopher Richardson
t. powerlevelfag
Alexander Perry
Snyder's Batman isn't "the ultimate human". If anything it's closer to Dixon's Batjerk than to Morrison, it's just Batjerk with power-ups. Fan service doesn't make it batgod, batwank doesn't make you batgod. It's a different interpretation.
Christian Brown
Actually, thinking on it, it seems like Bruce has had the absolute shit kicked out of him more this last few years than in recent memory.
>In a world where normal guys in their 50s are doing shots of test just just because, to say nothing of athletes, wouldn't it make sense for "normal" superheroes to run a cycle to keep themselves in literally super-human shape? Successful real life vigilantes would use guns. It's not out of character for Batman to do neither. That's kind of his entire point. He's rigidly fanatical about the boundaries he sets for himself. His extreme self-discipline is contrasted with the villains he fights who fall victim to various instances of line crossing or self-indulgence.
Lincoln Bailey
I'm going to say, yes, on account that he goes through so many injuries, but on a short term basis. In severe muscle injuries, he'd probably go on a short course of corticosteroids (~2 days), followed with anabolic steroids (up to 14 days) to assist with healing. Then taper accordingly.
Camden Jenkins
>superheroes that are meant to represent the peak of human potential, is it violative of their core principal for them to use PED of course not, it's american and patriotic to roid up roiding up just reveals your true character, and if you're pure you will be handsome and peak human, just like batman and captain america
Ethan Foster
>capfags triggered at nattys Reminder that even in the MCU you can be Peak human without roids or magic herbs
They decrease recovery time, and more muscle means higher strength potential.
Asher Taylor
She hit her limit, didn't she, somewhere towards the end of post-crisis? I forget what it was.
Adrian Russell
can't recall as well. i know there are stories where she gets sick of bruce's shit but i can't recall her doing anything that would do long term damage to bruce.
Dylan Foster
this nigga is peak dead
Kevin Campbell
Sure, but it was natty and glorious for every single of the 12 panels he was in
James Parker
Cap America is the worst offender of them all
Austin Scott
I guarantee Batman uses Oxycotin, Xanex, and Diazapham at minimum. All 3 are horribly addictive. There is no way Batman can do what he does realistically otherwise.
Gavin Walker
if he took steroids he'd still be alive
Tyler Collins
>realistically You are retarded
Andrew Ramirez
Fighting someone like Killer Croc WILL shatter your hand, no matter how well trained and in shape you are. Fighting someone like Bane without anything to fend off pain is impossible. Obviously, because its a comic, Batman doesn't need drugs. Realistically though? He would.
Easton Brown
Realistically you can't be batman you moron and there's no change for killer croc or fucking bane. Fucking talking crabs
David Young
nigga you can't swing on grappling hooks between buildings
Gabriel Murphy
"Realistically" he wouldn't use drugs, he'd use weapons. The range of what can be accomplished by humans of any sort is completely irrelevant compared to the damage a mechanical weapon can do. Usain Bolt isn't going to outrun a bullet and steroids won't give you more strength than a Predator drone. What would be the point of even considering steroids as worth crossing your moral boundaries when the gains are almost nothing compared to what you could get by giving in to use of the much more practical mechanical boundary crossing options? The conversation here is as ridiculous as someone contemplating the use of a slightly sharper sword than the one they're already using. It completely misses the point that you wouldn't use physical strength or a sword at all, you'd use modern technology which outclasses both by such ridiculously massive bounds that I'm honestly baffled as to why this wasn't already obvious to you.
Justin Harris
Exactly, in universe you can't justify batman using roids, he is natty due his own autistic philosophy of human perfection, without that idiology it wouldn't make sense for him to use fucking roids when he can give himself actual superpowers, enchance his body or use mechsuits. Realism and realistic are 2 different things when it comes to fiction.
Xavier Robinson
>Look mom, I called them all casuals. Are I a real 4channer nao?? t. Samefag
Liam Cox
Nope, but he likes to drink Coca Cola and Pepsi, those things are like drugs right?
Nolan King
He doesn't, he drinks ginger ale and Yerba Mate
Jacob Sanchez
I would honestly come to expect a 40 yr batman to be doping in order to maintain an edge, trying to keep up with crime and the rest of the justice league.
Kevin Myers
This is pretty much the only reason Bane works as a Batman villain, because he taps into that aspect of Batman and milks the "peak human" thing for all it's worth, except to him all that's worth is using it to break people, with no such things as morality or honor attached to it.
Josiah Brooks
You should browse /fit/ sometime.
Sebastian Powell
Also because Venom makes you insane. Helluva side effect.
Jeremiah Brown
No, but that story was weird for other reasons.
Joseph Rivera
>Spy Smasher and Cap crossed over in the 40s Would that be the first DC/Marvel crossover, if only retroactively?
Aaron Carter
Do people unironically thinks pain killers are taboo? A LOT of people take painkillers.
Christian Torres
Batman doesnt do painkillers
Gavin Foster
A fucking aspirin is a painkiller. The fact that you think it’s some sort of UBER EVIL thing to take makes you retarded.
Logan Evans
>Yerba Mate Batman isn't anywhere near that much of a pussy.
Nolan Watson
>. The fact that you think it’s some sort of UBER EVIL thing to take makes you retarded. I don't, batman does, becuase it makes no sense for him to use painkillers or roids when he could just use a mecha suit or give himself powers. The guy uses chi to close this wounds and meme meditation, it's comics. He either doesn't use anything or there's no justification for him not using other things.
Batman’s next villain= the guy with a mild headache who took over an over the counter medication. Put this madman in Arkham Asylum, Batman!
Charles Thompson
user meant Captain marvel not america. Spy smasher was another fawcett/whiz comics character
Joshua Sanders
What kind of stupid shit are you trying ti imply you autistic manchild?
Adam Young
>it's different for Batman, and the characters like Sherlock Holmes, Zorro, or even Teddy Roosevelt, that he's based on. >Are performance enhancing drugs to be considered in the "normal" sphere of human potential? Especially if they carry lower or more benign side effects?
The Shadow often used a mysterious purple elixir on himself and his agents that was able to restore strength and accelerate their healing or temporarily numb their pain. It was often depicted as a last resort type of thing for only dire situations, as he and his agents never used it more than once per novel, and it didn't heal injuries magically, it was more of a temporary solution until he or his agents could get actual medical treatment. It was pretty much a narcotic along the lines of what you're describing.
The shadow isn't peak human, batman is: Batman, Conan, Tarzan, Doc Savage were peak humans. Peak humans in general are naturally gifted people that just gets there thanks to training and context. Peak humans in general are natty, in fact aside from Captain America and Black Panther (both seem more like enchanced humans) i can't think of many peak humans that are product of roids. Bane was peak human BEFORE the Venom, and said venom creates superhumans not peak humans (in fact the supersoldiers batman fights in venom have endodermic metal plates)