Why did fans care about Batman and Superman breaking their no-kill rules in the DCU...

1. Superman is a demigod, and a symbol. If he can't find a way around killing, no one can. And if he kills, then he can justify any killing and can't be stopped.

2. Batman was born from killing, traumatized by it. Him killing, let alone using any form of gun, means Batman doesn't exist anymore.

Spiderman started as a bored edgy kid until he realized his actions and lack of have consequences. He's not someone to look up to, and if he goes crazy he can be stopped.

weak bait.

>1. Superman is a demigod, and a symbol. If he can't find a way around killing, no one can. And if he kills, then he can justify any killing and can't be stopped.
Thor is an actual god and is killing left and right. Where are all those philosophical questions?

Who did spider-man Kill in the MCU?

because batman and superman are good law abiding taxpaying heroes
spiderman is a menace and probably a hippie

Superman constantly fights beings at his power level or higher. If many heros are justified killing villians at their power level than so is Superman

Spidey hasn't killed anyone in the MCU either. Killing animal monsters used as dog of war doesn't count.

He used kill mode against aliens in endgame

Against weaponised mindless monster. It's self defence.

He was also the master mind behind Maw's death

Peter didn't kill anyone in Homecoming, what are you talking about?

I’m not complaining about it.

no kill rules are fucking stupid, some niggas just need to die

Was Thor ever the perfect boyscout that stands for truth justice and the american way?

The only Spider Man that killed someone was Sam Raimi's version

Woah, is this what the PS5 is capable of?

The scope of the threat/crime makes it impossible for it not to be justified. Thanos literally killed bajillions of sentient beings.

Spidey hasn't killed anyone except in Endgame where they were trying to kill him.

>"If a god can't find a way around killing, no one can. And if he kills, then he can justify any killing and can't be stopped."
>"Well, isn't Thor a god that can't find a way around killing?"
>"... it's different when it's Marvel."

You are a ignorant and a retarded person

>Batman is stupid
Fundamentally, sorta

lmao

...Did he even kill anyone in the MCU?

I'm not sure Thanos' goons count during Endgame or ole' Squidward from IW assuming the former were not robots or whatever because at that point the lives of EVERYBODY in the universe were at stake and he was just doing his part to keep things going. A no-kill policy can't really work at stakes that high if there is literally no way of detaining a villain in jail or prison or force them into a retreat.

As for the rest of the movies, the biggest body counts of the MCU come from the Chitauri invasion (again, killer fucking cyborgs and space robot snakes trying to kill everyone on earth) and all the Ultrons (not human!)

If Superman nutted up and killed Darksied in a movie with similar "everything will irreversibly be *fucked* if he wins" stakes, I doubt the people of DC earth or movie goers would be *that* upset, whever Supes actually delivered a killing blow or hit him into a black hole/so hard Darkseid exploded. Audiences were upset with Zod's death (on top of everything else wrong with that movie) because the plot rushed and forced Supes into a no-win situation his first day out. The tone more than anything else made that whole deal sour and post Nolan-movie Batman just has his kill switch flipped on from the start and we're supposed to take at face value bad shit happened to him to bring him to that point rather than be shown a story where it happens.

>Spidey always had a strong no-kill rule.
Spider-Man didn't get a no kill rule until 2011, specifically Amazing Spider-Man #655. It was stupid then. It's still stupid. Specifically he swore to never let anyone die around him again. including villains and boy fuck has he failed since. In fact, literally the next new character introduced was Massacre who would go on to die at the hands of a possessed fucking Spidey.

What Spidey had was a try not to kill unnecessarily rule...unless wanted you dead or he didn't give a fuck about keeping you alive. He's killed people by deliberately using them as human shields more than once in the past.

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Seriously, Spidey generally didn't give a fuck. Here's him killing the dude that killed his parents in 1968.

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>Why did fans care about Batman and Superman breaking their no-kill rules in the DCU
I liked that you sayd fans and not the general public. Watch this video
youtube.com/watch?v=LfkmwgU9E_U
The main reason non-autistic fans react so hard is that Snyder take is SERIOUS, the music, the sound, how it's filmed, there's a lot of talk about WEIGHT, and it's actually true, it's a whole, not a single element, just changing the music already makes the homicide "lighter". The MCU is vainilla, there's no artistic merits when it comes to music of cinematography, so the tension comes only from emotional involvment from the watcher, Snyder autism has the escenes ready in his head, it all work as a whole, and that's why his action doesn't seem "fun", it's closer to a war movie where the action is stressful instead of being fun like in your average action movie, this has nothing to do with talent. The bike/truck escene of terminator 2 or the jurassic park' t-rex chase are great examples of light thrilling action that isn't stressful, the destruction porn of snyder is far away from the one you see in Transformers, and the reason is the way it's "filmed". So when you see Captain America brake the back of a sentry in Civil War or kill a few people in at the start of Winter soldier you don't feel the weight of the action, it's just a generic action run that produces jow, when Iron Man kills people you listen to AC/DC. Snyder took his movie seriously and paid the price since the audience reacted seriously to murder, it's not hidden in "adventurous" music or filmed from afar, everything was designed to make it look "heavier".

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>if he goes crazy he can be stopped.
I mean...multiple elseworlds prove that'd be a heavy lift.

Beyond that, 616 Peter literally has the means and knowledge to destroy the entire multiverse.

You fucking casuals are retarded. Superman never had a no-kill rule and has killed multiple sentient lifeforms in history. He even killed Zod in the comics too.

Additionaly Batman has broken his no kill rule in the comics, both as part of elseworlds and in the main continuity.

>Superman never had a no-kill rule
At least one iteration of Superman ONLY killed Zod (and 2 other shitters) and the act fucked him up so badly he started hallucinating and got a murderer off death row to somehow tip the scales. Cause apparently if you save a killer's life it makes up for killing a killer.

These faggots can make up any excuse they want, but the answer is really simple: We're okay with it because those movies are good, unlike Snyder's garbage movies.

Why're you trying to start something, DCfag?

"Oh no let's not kill Thanos. If you kill him you're just as bad as him."

I appreciate you user, especially the fact that we're going to pretend to ignore you because you posted something that was factual, truthful, and with sources to back it up.

Fucking manchild.

aliens arent people

I don't think most people cared about Batman killing until the Nolan films.

He's Mr. No One Dies

One of the most iconic Spidey moments ever is him letting Noman get impaled by the glider.

He didnt kill him retard. He just let him die

Batman and surely superman have killed someone in the past

Batman and surely superman have killed someone in the past

I almost want to say early 90s "Web of" and "Spectacular" were where you went to get actual character moments. Amazing from around that time was just about the art

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>reeeee snyderrrr
Grown ups are trying to have a thread here.

Batman and Superman's entire characters are written around them as symbolism. That's all that makes them interesting. Superman is the strongest dude in most of fiction but he's interesting because he has the whole thing about being a representation of humans. His self-imposed no-kill rule contributed directly to that narrative.

Someone like Spiderman doesn't make a no-kill rule such an integral part of his character. His whole thing is "with great power comes great responsibility" and all that. That's why fans were equally as outraged about Spiderman dickriding Tony Stark as his influence in Homecoming as they were about man of murder. It wasn't the same subject for each hero but the fans cared about them the same amount because of how important those things were to be stepped on in their narratives.

Avengers in general have no kill rule

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extremely based and knowledgeable, user

Its always him in a fatal situation with a villain and with no civilians around.

Thor is killing regular humans?

Zod ain't a regular human either.

Because the MCU proves if your characters just make a bunch of jokes, you can change a character’s core characteristics or personality and barely anybody will complain.

If your in the game your fair play. Thats not supermans creed though

Disney marketing campaign

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Who did Spider-Man kill? He never killed anyone. Him and Daredevil are probably the only Marvel heroes with a super strict no kill rule. Nearly all heroes in the Marvel universe don't like to kill but will if it comes to it. That is translated to the MCU. Spider-Man risked his life to save the man who tried to kill him and Iron Man and the others kill when they have to

He killed Ebony Maw and some of Thanos' minions.

DC has always been more mythological than marvel
marvel heros rarely have to face this kind of moral dilemmas and when they do the writting leaves very little room to question their choices
DC heros its all they have, their ethos its much stronger than marvels, sadly that has led us to thousands of stories about "X character is now evil and has forsaken its morals"

Thor is a fucking viking warrior.

I always hated MCU Spider-Man.
And I don't care for Iron Man and Cap because they're good characters in the movies.

Superman doesnt have a no-kill rule you stupid casual. Everything about your post tells me you don’t read many comics.

Superman killed Zod and two other kryptonians in the comics you retard.

Well he did kill Gwen Stacy with a strong assist by gravity.

Fuck you and that subhuman argument. Letting someone die is killing them, especially in circumstances you could have prevented it. You probably think batman didn’t kill Ra’s on the train in begins either

Thano's minions are mindless monsters but Ebony Maw is a weird one, though. He obviously had sentience and Spider-Man planned to launch him into space. You could say Iron Man was the one who did it but Spider-Man came up with the plan. Yeah, I guess you're right about that one, man. He straight ass didn't even think about saving Ebony Maw, maybe there is an explanation about why he did it (I think he doesn't consider aliens sentient at this point and only considers them mindless beasts like the ones in the Aliens movies, he doesn't even Mantis consider as a person but more as a monster) but he did kill him.

>Superman doesn't have a no-kill rule you stupid casual.

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Don't lie, shill.

But iron murdered all those people marvel cuck

It's all about presentation and expectations.
Superman is seen as a paragon of good, so putting him in a situation where he has to kill is tough enough. But then they do it in such a way that's obviously meant to be shocking (snapping a guy's neck), which just kind of feels offensive for the sake of being offensive.
Batman's no-kill rule is the most iconic no-kill rule in all of cape shitdom, so having him break it is in and of itself a huge no-no.
The MCU isn't as known for its no-kill rules, and the heroes in general never kills anyone in a way that comes close to Superman snapping a dude's neck on screen.

Superman does, one of his most popular comics is about him having a no kill rule. Stop being a contrarian dumbass and read a comic. The only time he broke it was with Pocket Dimension Zod a long time ago and he freaked out about it

It's because DC fans generally suffer from some sort of autism and parental emotional absence (hence projecting onto "father figures" of Superman or Batman)

He didn't kill anyone, he went out of his way to save Vulture from himself.

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MCU understands what a moral quandary the whole killing thing is and so they make a smart decision to just ignore it and pretend it doesn't matter. Attempting to tackle it like DC does just make your characters and narrative seem autistic. They tried to end this in BvS but they overcompensated and brought too much attention to it again, thus making Batman look like a psycho killer as opposed to being anally retentive about killing.

>The character without a no-kill rule, killed
Whoa, who would've thought of that one

I agree, but in all the instances posted it was literally his life, or theirs. Either way I can't believe I didn't notice this before, but then again the only "code" Peter has is that great power = great responsibility, which is probably far better than no kill...

I dont think there's a single MCU hero with no kill policy (thanfully), I still remember when Tony killed all those terrorists who where holding those women and children hostage.

>Peter moralfag and responsability Parker
>The man that wouldn't kill a bodyless villian that asked for a mercy kill the sweet release of death
Not a strong no kill rule?

He "killed" sandman in the movie and tried to kill Harry.

user I’m with writers in that certain situations there’s only one way to end a threat which is finishing off the bastard. I just think it’s cheap to pretend “w-w-well he didn’t ACTUALLY intend for them to die!”

Sure, maybe it’s not as drastic as killing them to let them suffer whatever fate comes to them, but it’s still murder, and I’m almost positive no hero has had a problem with some of their rogues “accidentally” killing themselves

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marvel heroes decided to be people dc heroes decided to be symbols

Didn't they address this shit in Dr. Strange?

Somebody could also post one of the numerous times Spidey's expressed his disapproval of Punisher's kills.

True, but Tony could still EASILY have just immobilized the enemies with the stones, or teleported them to the far ends of the universe, or anything. Nope - kill 'em all!

Comics Cap was entirely opposed to killing the Supreme Intelligence at the end of Galactic Storm.

Live-action doesn't have the same considerations as the books where they have to keep recycling/reviving characters to maintain interest with readers. The general movie-going audience doesn't give a shit about villains getting offed because they generally don't appreciate stories where contrivances are made to keep characters alive or loose ends are created because the antagonists keep getting away, they want closure, and death is a pretty solid way of guaranteeing that whether by the hands of the protagonist, or their own.

Aliens don't count

Didnt Tony kill a bunch of terrorists in the first Iron Man movie?

Did he have an easy alternative? (Or even a near-infinite number of options?)

That is also the reason why Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Shazam are cinematic "success".

He had for a lot of them, but the ones that were holding hostages basically needed to be killed.

I don't disagree with your point, but whether Thor kills humans or not is silly. Why is it okay to kill frost giants but not humans? Most sentient life is relatively the same, wouldn't you say?

God I hate MCU Spiderman. Mostly because he's attached to Stark.
Fuck Stark. He ruins everything he touches.

Batman has a strong no kill rule. Superman will kill if left with no other choice. The Marvel heroes don't have those rules for the most part. I remember some faggots trying to make a big deal about Aquaman killing ion his movie but he's never had a no kill rule either

Except the universe.

MCU Spidey is too much of a loser, both in terms of character and actual fighting ability.

He was pretty impressive in Civil War, but has been a complete weakling most of the time since then.

>Somebody could also post one of the numerous times Spidey's expressed his disapproval of Punisher's kills.
Plenty of Punisher's kills are executions and assassinations. If Spidey ever pulled a Daredevil and did something like criticizing Frank for killing a train full of assassins literally sent to kill him, the writer needs to be smacked upside the head.

>in all the instances posted it was literally his life, or theirs.
In one instance he used a guy to block bullets he could have dodged. In another instance he used a guy's car to block a missile he could have led into any unoccupied object.

Not saying what he did was wrong, but it wasn't kill or be killed. Spidey had the physical ability to solve both those situations without killing. He just chose fucking not to.

Why did you post Homecoming for this topic? I'm pretty sure more people died by falling down the stairs in that movie than from the result of any heroes or villains.

I think no-kill rule makes sence on earth level.
You don't kill thugs because there are police and court to judge them.

But for otherwordly threats there is no means of legal judgement known for spider-man.
There was nobody to stop Maw except heroes so they stopped him as best they could.

Pretty sure Spidey has already given up on his "No one dies" promise and has defaulted back to "Save everyone I can".

The no-kill debate shows one of the fundamental flaws and contradictions of the superhero genre, in that the hero both represents a moral ideal, but also exists primarily as a vehicle for spectacular action. At the end, there will always be a big battle to resolve moral conflict, with the implicit message that might makes right. The no kill rule, the false veneer of morality laid onto the superhero narrative, is actually a concession to the serial format of comic books, in that it was good business to keep villians around should they become popular. In film adaption, this is less of an issue because of a more spaced out release schedule than comic books, owing to the far higher production costs.

I liked Doctor Strange but I don't much like other Marvel films, precisely because Doctor Strange is the only film where the conflict is resolved not by combat, but by cunning. It's one of the few superhero films I've seen that doesn't carry the implicit message of combat being the highest ideal of moral decision making.

1. Spider-Man has killed probably 20 or so people in the comics and lots of other sentient beings. There used to be a page on SpiderFan.org.
2. The Outriders are non-sentient monsters created to kill as many things as they can before they die. The full extent of their brain function.
3. Spider-Man made no attempt to save Ebony Maw, but he also didn’t kill him. Saying it’s his fault because he came up with the plan is like saying Oppenheimer is responsible for every death related to nuclear weaponry.

user if you think letting someone die = kill you are in the autistic spectrum

thank you!

Yea Forums unable to parse tone

I do agree with you on it not being the same but I also agree with the other user that with certain heroes, them not doing anything in a situation where a death is easily preventable, it doesn't seem as different as them killing them themselves. Like you would seem pretty fucked up if you just sat there and let a guy drown, you didn't kill him but its still pretty fucked up.

I'm fine with Spidey, Superman, and Bats killing things that don't pass the Harkness test.

same shit but vice versa was used for Captain Marvel.
Truly a corporation of evil. (Endgame was nice though, but mostly because it is stolen Snyder's plan)

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>using gun means batman doesn't exist anymore

I'd just like to take this opportunity to say I really enjoyed how in Beyond Bruce getting so old and weak he had to resort to using a gun just to survive a normal night as Batman was what finally broke him and made him hang up the cowl.

Based and DCpilled

Superman wasn't either.
Only some certain period of time between more strict editorialship took over DC in 40's and Crisis on Infinite Earth.
Also "American way" can literally mean anything, from "I will do only what muh President of the Greatest nation on planet Earth tells me" to "it's land of the free, fuck you and fuck everybody, I do what I think it right".
Of course when that phrase was added it only meant first, because there was no mistrust of the government as it is since Nixon

and Superman is either alien raised as human that kills gangsters or enemy soldiers, leaving scientists that make poisons die on their own invention (original version)
or alien that knows that he is alien raised as human, but also aware about his blood heritage (7 (2 pre-Crisis Earths, 3 post-crisis reboots, 1 new52 and 1 current mixed post-Reborn one) versions of that, just in mainstream continunity

None of those versions dictates that he can't/won't evert kill.

>marvel heros rarely have to face this kind of moral dilemmas and when they do the writting leaves very little room to question their choices

t. never read comics

>2. Batman was born from killing, traumatized by it. Him killing, let alone using any form of gun, means Batman doesn't exist anymore.
that's just retarded nu-DC's "explanation" and also to push anti-gun agenda (while, ironically, having no problem givin guns to Superman).
No, he was born from his dad being not strong enough to knock out burglar and protect his wife.
That's why he trained his whole life to become faster, stronger and smarter than any thug and being able stand for innocent people. That's why he beats living shit out of them, instead of negotiating.
And that's why he put some of them to the death numerous times in comics, including with using guns.

I bet you either watch shit like HiTop, or even worse you are one of them.

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Aliens in a literal war scenario don't count.
Like it's just pathetic when I see people talk about killing invading aliens as some moral event horizon. Being a citizen of any country would give you the full right under the law to help defend the planet so lets not even play the "Uhhhh we don't kill because the law tolerates us" angle either

And it was lamest shit ever, he just used his legs, instead of turning his web shooters into guns (like mini Iron Man repulsors or something)
fucking hacks, biggest dissapointement of the movie for me

mental gymnastics

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>under the law
Superheroes break laws all the time, unless they live in lawless shithole libertarian heaven to begin with.

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>strong assist by gravity
Thought that was inertia

That was a commie.
That was acceptable back then.

Exactly when did MCU Spidey kill anybody?

>do only what's necessary to stop an enemy

That also implies that under extraordinary circumnstances, when there is no other way, it would be justified to kill the enemy in order to stop the threat.

He killed palestinean children by paying taxed to the american ZOG

based